De lenguas (EN inside)
![Spain](http://www.erepublik.net/images/flags_png/S/Uruguay.png)
Pechorin
No quiero asustar a nadie, no es mi intención: las lenguas están para comunicarse, para expresar nuestras ideas y entender a los demás. Las lenguas normalmente están relacionadas con la libertad, las relaciones sociales o los intercambios entre iguales, también es cierto que muchas veces han sido arma de imposición, represión o subyugamiento. En este caso también nos enfrentamos a varias maneras de entender nuestro país.
Yo me considero ciudadano de frontera. Frontera linguística y cultural. Me he criado en una zona de España donde hablamos el castellano y el catalán. No lo hablamos todos en mi región y aunque es una lengua oficial no se la imponemos a los que no la entienden. La estudiamos en la escuela y hablamos una variante dialectal. Parecido a lo que sucede en la frontera uruguaya con Brasil.
¿Es el portugués lengua oficial de Uruguay? NO, como bien se indica aqui.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uruguay (perdón, no funcionan bien los links)
¿Se estudia en escuelas de determinadas areas del país? Claro, sólo faltaba. Todo el mundo tiene el derecho a aprender su lengua materna, negarles ese derecho sería igual de malo que obligar a alguien a hablar o entender una lengua que no es suya.
¿El gobierno uruguayo RL puede estar interesado en la enseñanza del portugués? Serían tontos si no lo hacen, Brasil está ahi al lado y las ventajas económicas son innegables. ¿Se le podría criticar al gobierno por desarrollar este programa? No lo creo, es bueno y útil que la gente hablé lenguas extranjeras, por que eso es lo que es el portugués, una lengua extranjera.
Hay muchas zonas en el mundo donde conviven varias lenguas. Se intenta mantener el respeto y la buena disposición en pos de una cordial convivencia. Conozco muchos casos en Europa, como el catalán en Francia o Italia, las distintas lenguas en Suiza o el sueco en Finlandia. En todos estos casos son lenguas oficiales, pero aún con esa denominación sus hablantes entienden que no se habla esa lengua en todo el país y usan una lengua común a todos.
Lo que está tan claro en la RL aqui no parece estarlo. Amigos de la imposición y de la impostura parecen poco preocupados por la convivencia. Personalmente, por mi podéis hacer lo que queráis. No estoy aqui para vigilaros. Creo que todos podemos ser capaces de vivir en sociedad sin imponer nuestras ideas por la fuerza de la insistencia.
A mi me gustaría aprender el portugués (ya lo he expresado en otros comments) pero no creo que por que yo quiera aprenderlo u otros quieran imponerlo, los demás tienen que aguantarse y sufrirlo. Como dicen los anarquistas, los de verdad no los que se ponen las etiquetas, la libertad de uno acaba donde empieza la de los demás.
Es una cuestión de actitud, de modales. En el fondo todo es sobre saber vivir en sociedad y tener respeto a uno mismo y a los demás.
English:
There is a debate in eR about the portuguese language in real Uruguay. In the real Uruguay the only official language is Spanish, altough it is possible to study portuguese in the school and in the border people speak a dialect from portuguese.
In order to build a society in eUruguay we should avoid attitudes like imposition. We must try to find a different way. I have grown up in a border area (in Spain, an area where we speak catalan and spanish). Here we try to respect the people who don't speak catalan and we use the spanish. We don't want to force nobody.
There are many examples of good coexistence in many parts of the world as Swizterland. There people respect the different languages and culture. I would like to learn portuguese but I don't think I can force the others to do it with me. As the real anarchist say: our freedom ends where the other people's freedom starts.
It is a matter of respect and good manners.
Comments
No one is forcing you to learn portuguese.. 😐
You're free to read articles in portuguese, or not, and I'm free to write them.
The end.
Que gran verdad Pechorin!!Mucho les queda que aprender a los que solo entiende la relación con los demás como una imposición de sus normas, costumbres y cultura.
no voted
não tens fundamento pá!
V!
Ese Pechorin owneando a los portuguses! \o
Voto!! los de arriba 🙁, a manejarse
votado!!!!!!!!!!
Hay duros de mollera en todas partes;gente que le gusta imponer en nombre de vete a saber qué.
Salud,Pechorín, contra la imposición,imaginación y tolerancia.
i'm tired of giving articles and proof that portuguese will be mandatory but, as a foolish man once sai😛
"No one is forcing you to learn portuguese.. 😐
You're free to read articles in portuguese, or not, and I'm free to write them.
The end."
como qeu no funcionan bien los links?
pasalos por tinyurl
Nós fomos buscar as provas que o Portugues será obrigatório no Uruguai porque vocês começaram a tentar obrigar-nos a utilizar o espanhol aqui. Nós não impusemos nada, vocês é que o estão a fazer.
"Here we try to respect the people who don't speak catalan and we use the spanish. We don't want to force nobody."
We didn't desrepect you, you disrespected us. Where do you think all discusion started?
The discussion started when some people, I include myself in this group, wanted to promote a eUruguay with english and spanish as a current languages. Other people didn't like the idea and decided to act as a outsiders. It is ok for me, I know which are the official languages of the country.
I know people like you, so I know that I will have many opportunities to learn portuguese. That's ok for me but maybe, and I say maybe, it is not the rigth thing to do in a country like eUruguay.
THe only official language in Urugai is Spanish. Anyone who speaks spanish understands portuguese, so people who write in spanish shouldn't complain. Since eUruguai has only spanish and portuguese speaking population, it shouldn't be a problem to speake my language.
The problem is not the speaking itself, at least for me, in my opinion the problem is the attitude. When you arrive to a new place you should start a process call integration. Your group didn't want to do it and since then we have problems.
imo portuguese(brazilian) people should learn spanish instead, is far more used than portuguese (worldwide i mean, in real life)
"imo portuguese(brazilian) people should learn spanish instead, is far more used than portuguese (worldwide i mean, in real life)"
Instead of what?
"The problem is not the speaking itself, at least for me, in my opinion the problem is the attitude. When you arrive to a new place you should start a process call integration. Your group didn't want to do it and since then we have problems."
Then only thing we did was talk portuguese. The majority didn't need to 'cause they already speak the oficial language. We can all understand each other so you shouldn't complain about portuguese. If there is other isues, expose them, 'cause the only one I see you people talk about is the language and the (false) TO.
Hoje em dia, devido á globalização, encontramos todos os dias cidadãos de diferentes nacionalidades.
Hermanos, falar o português ou o espanhol não é de grande importância, ambas as linguas são bem compreendidas pelos portugueses e pelos espanhois. Interessa aqui unir os esforços por um Uruguai melhor e mais unido.
Nowadays, due to globalization, we can find every day citizens with diferent nacionalities in our countries.
Brothers, the portuguese or spanish language issue doesn't matter the most right now, because both languages are well understood by both portuguese and spanish speaking citizens. What does matter right now is to work together for a strongher and united Uruguay.
Cumprimentos(Compliments)
mikesoft: actually...spanish can be more used...but the spanish speaching countries are ages ago from brasil in development...the next world language will probably be mandarim or portuguese😐
It doesn't matter if brazil is ahead in development. It's just easy for brazilians to learn spanish than spanish ppl to learn portuguese, since there are less brazilians than spanish people. It's just common logic, however, I don't feel it's necessary to do such thing, I'm just stating my opinion over this article, I don't really see a point for "uruguay" becoming bilingual, just pick a universal language and stick to it. Bilingual countries do not get along well most of the time, take Canada for example, english canadians and french canadians literally hate each other... so, just speak whatever language you want and choose a universal language like english to communicate with foreign ppl.
i agree with Pechorin
RL language should prevail, but all languages from those who come to help, must be listened and understood.
With a common help, we can build a common country, a greater country.
It´s not that easy to understand portuguese when is write. For us, spanish speaking people, is really easy to comunicate with brazilians talking, but when it´s writen, the thing is different.
It would, would, be better if we could use spanish inside our countrie, but if brazilians or pertuguese want to come and help, we should respect them and tolerate them, as long as they show a helpful attitude towards eUruguay.
I write this in english, so EVERIONE can understand-
mmm un detalle... el catalán no es oficial en francia como dices y en italia es tan solo cooficial en una región.
@mikesoft english is the actual world language because of the USA economics and the control england once had in india😐
there are more people speaking mandarim or even spanish in the world but the world language is english...
this is a world were the most powerful dictate the rules...and economic strength is power...
not that i agree with that metod...but i can't do anything about it...
@migoya i understand what you write in spanish...is it that more difficult to understand what we write in portuguese,(that is a language similar to spanish) than english?!?
😐
but i agree with you there...the main language of uruguai IS spanish and you can't deny that portuguese is also a language used in uruguai both now and even more in the future...even so...we should all write in english so that every person involved can understand the dialog and give their opinion.