[I&W]: The future lies in dialogue.
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by Kixtart
Agenda an thoughts for elections December 2009
Citizens of the eUNL,
As PP of Iron and Wine, I would first like to express my regret when reading the LSD article. The first thought that entered my mind, "The mudslinging campaign season has begun again." It saddens me though that the LSD needs to degrade half the political parties in order to get their "agenda" across. What their agenda is I still do not know. What I do know is that dirty politics is not politics or "campaigning". I have instructed my party members to refrain from such acts in the future because its not the way politics should work in the eUNL. That is why Iron and Wine wants politics to be about the facts and better communication. We hope that the other parties agree on this as well because that is needed for our future. Especially now when a major decision needs to be made and agreed upon.
So as you can see our focus this coming term will be dialogue.
Dialogue.
What do we mean by that? Well we think that the coming election will be more important than ever. This is because in the coming month we will decide the direction our nation will take. As you are all aware of we must decide if we are to join the eUK under one flag, or continue as a union between eNetherlands and eBelgium.
If we decide to join everyone's voice should be heard regardless if you are BP, LP, LSD, GLD, GVD, or I&W. Once a decision has been taken we must work forward together. But first we must end the fighting between parties.
To do this we must have an open dialogue.
If we as a nation decide decide to remain as the eUNL, we must use dialogue also. I&W believes that we should work on reforming the way we conduct our politics. If we continue along this path of mud throwing we will all be heading down a path of self destruction.
We must rebuild our country through dialogue. Because dialogue is the foundation for unity, something that has been lacking these last few months.
Therefore fellow citizens, I ask you to support Iron and Wine.
Iron and Wine believes that politics should be about the facts and looking for ways to right our wrongs. We believe that politics should not be based on pointless accusations and mud slinging.
Iron and Wine believes that as a party we must inform our citizens about the merger so that everyone has all the facts. We do not believe that a party should choose the course of action, but that you should make it!
As you can see the coming election will be more important than any election we have had so far. So when you cast your vote think of the future of our nation.
Vote for reform and vote for dialogue.
Vote Iron and Wine.
Regards,
Christiaanb94
PP of I&W
dialogue brings the path to unity
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Comments
Voted. We, I&W, GLD & LP got a lot done this month but there is always room for improvement and more things that need doing so vote I&W!!!
Lol, that look like a post of BP-LSD last month with inversed roles 😛.
Great article Christiaanb94 🙂
Good article.
@ Jofroi, i mustve missed that, care for a link?
You go girl!
That's not a real post, it's just the kind of thing that they could have said😁.
We cooperated in their government and still want to continue trying, so can sound a bit the same.
Voted off course!!
And this time.. even Puc runs for Congress!!
Voted, go I&W!
A good article. I hope you will do as you preach, then you will certainly make this country a brighter place. 😃
Jofroi, there's a gigantic difference between actual posts and a 'could have said'. 🙂
nice article...
They did something this month?
Ho, yes, finnaly, they made a programme of governement!
Ho, and i forgot : they thanks UK for Belgium liberation!
Ignore him please. Just feel pity
Iron and Wine is, as ever, the bigger man in this debacle.
I hope others will also get this attitude, not throwing mud, but work on a better UNL with each other.
Discussions are always ok, but some people only discuss to insult people.
@Sliever: Thanks for setting the example of how politics shouldn;t work.
As always your a great ASSet to our nation 🙂
I'm a local politician IRL and this is exacely my kind of style as a politician: cooperation.
I hate slander and mudslinging.
Good article and awesome to see that some people are more level headed than other. When I can vote (only lvl 4 atm) you have won an extra I&W member.
Good luck in changing the attitude of I&W. It is good that the mudslinging like in this article http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/-i-amp-w-explanation-1046656/1/20" target="_blank">http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/-i-a[..]/1/20 and this http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/-i-w-minister-of-defense-vanouze-983996/1/20" target="_blank">http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/-i-w[..]/1/20 and this http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/-i-w-how-many-this-time--964149/1/20" target="_blank">http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/-i-w[..]/1/20 and this http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/-i-w-reaction-on-several-issues-935556/1/20" target="_blank">http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/-i-w[..]/1/20 (to name some) will be over.
Also I hope that when again I&W will lead a government it will not fire advisers by a comment in the media.
I do hope this change of I&W will not be the same as this one: http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/-i-w-reaching-out-to-lsd-941258/1/20" target="_blank">http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/-i-w[..]/1/20 that was immediately followed by an attack.
Good luck in trying to come in good contact with all the parties.
Cocoamok (or now aka Niemand), thanks again for proving our point of putting past issues behind us. I mean naming names is so very constructive (even if they are just a few). But I would like to ask how bringing back past issues and arguments will help us in the future, to help us make a clean dialogue.
Its time for you to forget the past and work together with the rest because it seems that many of the problems of the past have been as a result with disagreements with you and not necessarily the LSD.
@Auggustus: To forget the past is very strange, to forgive can be useful. You can think all lies in the past, but I do not think that is reality. A clean dialogue can only start when you have learned from the past and when there is some trust.
Maybe it is better for you to focus yourself on the present because thinking that many problems of the past have been as a result with disagreements with me and not necessarily the LSD does not show to me your insight in these problems. I do not blame you for misjudging that because (I think that) you do not have access to the private LSD forum.
When forgetting the past, UNL would be a neutral state, because there would not been any commitment to Phoenix, nor would EDEN be an enemy. Back to the internal politics of UNL: I do not play a real role in that, nor do I want that. So when trying to get unity between UNL parties, focus on the ones that play a role in these parties would be much better.
Lastly, eRepublik is a game with role playing. Cocoamok is more or less a ghost on the UNL forum, Niemand does not want to be active there. Trying to connect them is not forgetting the past I think.
You can can change the "face" but underneath lies the same person, there is no arguing that or trying to mask appearances.
However sometimes like is the case now it is better to whipe the slate clean. Thats all we want!
The future will be our present very shortly, elections are about looking at long term effects of policy, and the situations we are faced with is long term.
Nothing is masked, but I do not see any need to focus on the person, but it seems that you do. My comments here were on I&W pasts (that is why all my links were to I&W official articles, not to other newspapers) not on the I&W members, so people know I&W's history. I was as positive as I can be, wishing I&W twice good luck and expressing my hope, I cannot see what I&W did want more from me.
"The future will be our present very shortly, elections are about looking at long term effects of policy, and the situations we are faced with is long term."
That is always, new can be that there is a focus on it and that can be promising...
It's easy to denounce LSD / Theneka's criticism as mudslinging and leave it at that, but I'd rather some real debate about the points made by the LSD in this article http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/inertia-and-wine-1101176/1/20" target="_blank">http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/iner[..]1/20
Try to convince me it isn't true that this government is inactive and is not very communicative about whatever it is doing.
If someone can write out those points so that I do not need to read between all the rhetoric. Make the points clear.
You can give find articles to continue mudslinging for each party, so you or try to move on or never cooperate again. I know my choice.
@Kixtart: Some weeks ago I moved on. Maybe it is your choice too Kixtart than we both made the same choice. 😉
We need to forget the past. Well, past is not very good for I&W, so, we need to forget it!
(if paast was good for i&W...)
As usual with I&W!
I may have missed some articles, but I read up with theirs. and I just wanted to reply on the inertia part.
Inertia, the Latin word used by Newton in his laws about force. The word means slowness, a certain unwillingness to change.
Forces tend to do what they want to do, it's a lot easy to change a light object's direction than a heavy's object. Problem is, that the shit BP-LSD left behind is so huge, it takes a lot of force, and not surprisingly, this couldn't be done within a month.
Also good to see the party with the most members call another party the biggest 🙂
"Problem is, that the shit BP-LSD left behind is so huge, it takes a lot of force, and not surprisingly, this couldn't be done within a month." Please clarify Mighty Sigh. What did these parties in the government do so wrong compared to others?
@niemand aka cocoamok, you can post links from articles we wrote, i don't care.
I think we all want a better UNL and i keep saying this can only be done when parties are willing to work together, instead of blaming each other of mistakes that are made in the past.
@perry, thenaka wasn't only fired due to his article. as i said him yesterday on irc
Forget the past, forget the past... Try to make what you say.
(by the same time, you give me right. An other time. Thanks a lot!)
Forget the past, forget the past... Try to make what you say.
maybe you can also start with it😉 i know you hate me, but you can't say that i called you a lier, stupid and more.
and for your irc ban on eUNL you can file an appeal with Kixtart.
I will not.
By the way, i'm not speaking about "forgeting the past". Make what you say.*
Perhaps, you can reach some credibilty in the eyes of many, the day you will begin to make what you say so well (but never make!)
* i think we must never forget. Perhaps give pardon. (to people who understand what they made wrong, what is not you case and assume what they did, what is not...)
slivever, you are just very negative the last days, i have tried to start a normal discussion with you several times. But as i noticed you aren't willing to discuss in a normal way. I don't want to spend more energy in it anymore.
Keep living in the past, give comments when you want, but for me you are a nobody, a person not worth giving a comment on.
I am always open for a discussion, but not in the way you discuss things
@Niemand (I won't call you Cocoamok since you are a new character or so, I can not fully understand it but I will respect it)
Can you please clarify why any of these articles has a wrong attitude? Most of these articles were released in the middle of a mandate, calling on to the government for activity. I think those were very fair articles. The Inertia article released recently has just been slander, impersonating I&W as if they think of themselves as gods.
(Example: How dare you mock with the mighty Gods! You are a small fry in the big ocean, without the Gods, you are NOTHING! We have no need for CFU, constitutions or innovation, as long as we have our faith, our dogma's and our strong leadership we shall overcome!)
And lastly you refer to the whole Belgian subject, which I don't understand at all. I&W retreated it's men out of the UK, just because there was no active plan (which is in my eyes the government's, BP-LSD back then, responsibility to form) to PTO Belgium back.
In the end, they just don't compare. I&W has been focusing on dialogue in all those articles you referred to. Maybe it's time for you to let your vendetta against the I&W go and move on like you said you did? I think it's good of you to bid the I&W success, to be fair. 🙂 I certainly don't think we should forget the past, but everything changes. Your character as well as I&W. So we'd better let the past not weigh as much and face the future?
What succes? Explain me this!
These kind of victory? Victory that will be forget after reunification? So great victory!
I'm realy impressed! Just show the result, during many month, from BP and LSD on ALL the territory.
But, think about future : now, you create your futur.
The innitiative is not in the hand of the Majority of People.
@Matt Johnson: Thanks for these questions.
First article of I&W is about a government that takes no action (same as article Theneka wrote and was condemned)
Article two is just an attack on the MoD that more activity is needed. Indeed more action was needed, but Vanouze became inactive and we tried to reach him.
Article three title is: How many this time???
It refers to how many ministers will fail, does this need more explanation that it is totally not constructive?
Article 4 is even worse. It publicize information I&W got from a leak from the private forum of LSD. No regret they ever showed.
It is an attack against LSD and against Cocoamok. I&W may do so, but is it constructive?
Article five was reaching out to LSD to become friends again. Sadly it was followed by extreme negative comments under LSD articles and on the forum.
As this is the dialogue I&W is seeking, it is not mine. So having these experiences, I do not have much faith in I&W starting to forget the past and working together (so I doubt a real change of I&W).
I do not have any vendetta against I&W. I do not care much on UNL politics any more. I think I moved on, but when there is published some news, I bring in questions. It is for others to answer them.
Than about Belgian Affairs. Indeed I&W took out their members (as BP and LSD did not) because they did not see a plan to get these regions back. It was DanielB1989 who had the job on Belgians Affairs in that government of BP-LSD (a I&W member), the decision to retreat I&W made on their own without contacting before others on this. I&W did win the elections on tactical voting not on popular vote. It are game mechanics so they win. But can you imagine that BP and LSD do not trust I&W for doing this?
If we are making a list here what members of I&W did wrong we should do that also for other parties. For LSD there is enough history also which can be used in this unconstructive discussions here. So if we continue like this LSD-BP won't cooperate with anyone anymore it seems.
Who is talking about a list? Only refers are made to the articles of I&W. This is to judge the change I&W is offering. Same would be done when EDEN will reaching out to the UNL. We will judge on history and opportunities. Nowhere I say do not cooperate with I&W. Indeed I say, do not forget history.
In short this I&W article seems like the program for next month. That is in short referenda, dialogue and working together. I agree on all points. But for the rest it does not show any direction on issues like the army, the economy or a possible merge. Of course the congress members of I&W will vote on all issues. Will they favour privatising state companies or will they favour strengthening the state companies, will they favour higher or lower taxes, will they favour to invest in elite soldiers or in more activity of the army? Questions that can only be answered after the elections...
And do we know exact direction of those points at LSD or BP or GLD or .....?
People can read the program of parties if published.
An example: for LP and GLD we know they like to privatise state companies, from LSD we know they want to invest in them.
The current LSD program can be found here:
http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/libertarian-social-democrats-party-program-1107652/1/20" target="_blank">http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/libe[..]1/20
I agree it could be more clear, but parties usually don't switch from one side to another in their opinion, so for most it should be known and can be found on the forum/article history.
Woops, sorry I posted a lot of history from I&W.
I&W wants us to forget history to start with a clean slate.
Reform, change, dialogue and working together... 😉
This is getting useless. The program has nothing to do with previous discussions between members of the parties where whole parties are blamed for. If this is the way people will continue to discuss I'm done with it.
Indeed I agree, it is leading to nothing. But if I am right Kixtart started to ask about the directions of the other parties, so the programs came in. Still I think the disagreement is not between some members of the parties but between the parties. A different political view is there (left against right or market against socialism) although of course all parties have in common the benefit of the nation. It is very difficult or impossible to combine opposite political views into a working government program.
Only thing that we can work on all is to get more citizens.
There are no opposite ideals most of the times. Almost all problems are between users; when a certain user makes a plan it is shot down rather fast when they don't like each other.