Responding to the Hospital Issue
![Australia](http://www.erepublik.net/images/flags_png/S/USA.png)
Aeros
Well, it’s been a few day’s since my opening article that kicked off this debate and I’ve given the opposition time to lay out its side. Those of you who are interested no doubt read many of the debates in the eUS forums and here in the news media. It is clear that the status quo has broad spectrum support among powerful members of Congress, as laid out in their vehement defense of the pristine Fortress regions. Unfortunately, I am still not convinced that the status quo is the right path for the country. Our active population continues to decrease, there are numerous reports of new citizens falling through the cracks in the current welfare system, and the government has still not explained how they would handle a baby boom in the US under the present situation. What this say’s to me is that the status quo is broken, and to religiously cling to it jeopardizes the future success of our country.
In case you missed it yesterday, the United States had more than 500 new citizens join. Any other country on the planet getting that many new citizens would have practically leapt for joy and begun an all out effort to retain and add on to their baby boom. Here in the USA, it did not even register on the radar. Not only that, our population is down more than 600 new citizens from our National Goal setting population of 24,900 at the start of the month. For the math impaired, the eUSA has been “baby booming” at four to five hundred new citizens a day for the past couple days, and our overall population is down! Not only that, but as an editor of a major paper I have also noticed that US activity is vastly reduced from a few months ago. Many fewer articles are being published, and the number of votes per article is also vastly decreased. The opposition say’s that this is normal for the US, that we have merely gone back to the way things were activity wise pre invasion. They also claim that the hospital system that existed pre-invasion did not help this “normal” retention problem one bit. Of course, they also fail to mention that before PEACE invaded the USA, we were not doing anything as a country either that would have held the peoples interest. Right now however, we are involved in a major world war in which the USA stands a good chance to emerge from as one of the New Worlds leading powers. I find it hard to believe this argument that it’s the games fault we cannot retain as many people as other countries. What this argument say’s to me is that the current rulers of our country are trying to shift the blame to a nameless, faceless entity instead of their own failed policies.
And what are those failed policies? How about the naïve belief that a few dedicated workers are able to single handedly message 500 new people every day and get them moving tickets. Don’t believe me? I’ll let these two gems from the comments I received in my paper speak for themselves.
As a relatively young player, only an eGuy for a month, the first week or so is very confusing. I was unable to tell my elbow from a hole in the ground most days….I have no experience with any of the programs or efforts aimed at helping new citizens. I fell through the cracks. I could have been stuck in some state with no idea how to improve my lot. Siege of Herons
I never got a moving ticket from the welcoming comity, I worked hard and moved when I finally learned of the fortress policy during a congressional election. You can thank Shermain for bringing it to my attention. SolstaLynn
Those comments are coming from two individuals who overcame the wasteland and became active in the country enough to see the article and get involved in the debate. How many others just like them have been left behind? We will never know, and for that reason they can be conveniently overlooked when the Senate rolls out its fancy looking charts on eUS activity levels. I am not trying to argue that these welfare policies by themselves are a bad thing. Far from it. What I am saying is that they are not enough alone. We need a stable safety net to provide for new citizens in the wasteland who do not get the help right away and find themselves screwed over without a means to get their wellness up and a deep enough understanding of how the game works. This moves into the crown jewel of the oppositions argument; Noobishness. New Players don’t understand how this game works and so the argument goes, if you provide them a Q2 Hospital, they will not move to a Q5 hospital, thus endangering Americas economy and security. As a wise man once said to me however,” ignorance can be cured, stupidity cannot. “ The cries of new players for a hospital in their home state and the refusal to leave it come from ignorance, not stupidity. Eventually, most will learn that they can do much better for themselves in the Q5 regions and move to them. This comes from learning how the game works and is a natural progression. What is stupid is to deny these people the safety net because we do not want to deal with a small minority of idiots. I am not arguing in favor of this hospital program for the 10% that will abuse it. I am arguing for the 90% that will benefit from it and ultimately benefit our country.
As a final point, our Government in all their arguments for the status quo overlooked one very, very important factor. Real life population. The population of the United States is estimated to be 325 Million. That is million with an “M”. Poland, the present world population leader with more the 60,000 citizens has a population of 38 Million. Our two biggest states without infrastructure support (Texas and New York) combined have a population of 43 Million. That is 5 million more people in just two of our states than in the entire nation of Poland. What this say’s to me is the USA could conceivably have a baby boom of 60,000 citizens in New York and Texas alone. Is our wasteland commission prepared for this? For that matter, if this occurs, it won’t just be Texas and New York that will boom. What about other big states like Pennsylvania, Michigan and Ohio? If our population boomed in the same ratio that Poland’s has, we would supernova to 100,000 citizens easily. At least at first. At our current rate of retention (1% estimated) we could gain just 1,000 active citizens from an instant baby boom of 100,000 people. The remaining 99,000 would either die or be only partially active. In short, the eUSA is literally sitting on the verge of missing the opportunity of a life time, because these booms usually only happen once. Hungary had their boom in Beta, and then nothing. For the USA, all it would take is a profile on CNN or some other major network or media publication, and we would see a surge of interest for maybe a week. And during that time we will see the Congresses’ precious wasteland commission get sandbagged by 100,000 moving ticket requests because all the states the new citizens are being born into have no infrastructure to keep the people alive with. We will watch that opportunity of a lifetime slip through our fingers like so much sand, followed by heart felt apologies from those charge stating that “they never saw it coming”.
I hope this article shows you that supporters of improved infrastructure in the country are not some lunatic fringe. In fact, major proponents besides myself include senior military commanders and Americas Hospital Contractor (who builds them free of charge on a charity basis) Max McFarland. Because of Max, new hospitals will not cost the US Government any money. This makes the argument for the Status Quo an academic debate, not a financial debate. Even with that, nobody is saying we should put hospitals in every state in one go. Rather, we are arguing for a moderated approach of steadily building up our countries infrastructure over time, starting with critical states like Texas and New York. While the opposition claims to have many facts on their side that say we should not do this, I am not buying it. The status quo is bad policy and is sacrificing the future growth of our country for more near term strategic and political calculations. For this very reason, the status quo must be changed or we will continue to see our country getting surpassed by other nations with a fraction of our potential population.
And as if we needed anymore urgency for fixing our retention woes
http://www.erepublik.com/en/country/society/Hungary
Comments
First?
first? now to read...
Mmm... Debate. 😃
2nd?
11th!
damn
Agreed.
voted
somewhereth
This still adds nothing to the debate
Hypothetically, if we got a babyboom of that magnitude, Congress would roll out new Q5 hospitals to strategic regions, already financed by Max McFarland and built with Military labor.
Right now, we can't ignore our current strongholds, that's the crux of the argument.
100% agreed
Good job, Aeros. You changed my side on this debate.
http://eusforum.com/index.php/topic,17693.msg334906.html#msg334906" target="_blank">http://eusforum.com/index.php/topic,1769[..]34906
Agreed. Something must be done for player retention and I haven't heard an argument against more hospital placement that justifies the decision.
Big baby boom. Many hospitals support babies. YAY
GL arguing with the US politicians. They've gone back to squabbling over petty things and stinking to it.
Phoenixmaxx
Been there, done that. No matter how good your arguements are you are talking to a wall regarding hospitals
But it does System. We already ARE baby booming. 500+ citizens a day is considered a Baby Boom in every country but the USA apparently.
I'm going to side with Aeros.
Right on man.
I started in a country with no battles, then used my first gold to jump to the US. I moved to my birth-state of KY and my first battle was when PEACE invaded California. IF KY HAD NOT HAD A Q3 HOSPITAL AT THAT TIME, I WOULD HAVE DIED OR QUIT!!! When KY was overrun, I learned that states with Q5 hospitals are better.
I've talked with several new players recently who were never contacted by the WC, didn't know enough to reach out, and didn't read the welcome message because they thought it was admin spam. I gave them moving tickets out of pocket and told them how to fight.
WOOT!
Well reasoned article. I completely agree.
I greatly enjoyed the your first article on this issue and this just reinforces the issue. There is no reason to let this opportunity slip by. I hope the government will see your side Aeros!
Just do it!
system0101, that's ridiculous. NObody suggested "ignoring" the current fortresses and the point is we are getting new citizens EVERY DAY, but they disappear because they don't know what to do.
Animis, your point is even more ridiculous. New players do not "*choose* to live in states with no defense", they start by default in their home or some place they love in RL. And they don't get "continual information" ... it takes 2 or 3 weeks before players start getting lots of information about this game. Did you forget how you started? You seem to think that all new players already have the knowledge that level 18 players have. *doh*, they don't know nuthin'! But some are worth keeping around until they do know something.
Top Countries [number of fighters] - by Bogdan_L
http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/top-countries-number-of-fighters--1148323/1/20" target="_blank">http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/top-[..]/1/20
The fortress argument is no longer valid. A dedicated campaign would be effective if we actually needed a fortress somewhere. We were able to build a sizable fortress recently in a short period with minimal effort. With a moderate investment, we could double that fortress's size. I would hate to see a massive amount of infrastructure destroyed if WW3 were repeated. But lets face it, we could put Q5's in every region in 30 days if we wanted to. If that doubled our retention rate, it was a bargin.
a few Q2's in large states would only help, Q2's in all states would be counterproductive.
I think it would be worth it to place Q5s in your main states, which Aeros has mentioned. For an economy like America's it shouldn't be too difficult to equip 2-3 states a month with Q5 hospitals.
That being said, fortress regions are very beneficial if your country is being conquered. Perhaps USA needs to have more Q5 hospitals, but if they were threatened with another invasion, people should fall back to Florida or California.
Aeros for President!!!
Canada has Q5s in Quebec and Ontario on top of our old fortress Alberta because we know that it will help what little growth we have. The US could do well to put at least Q2s in Texas and New York.
Well, I'm convinced.
If people choose to live in states that have no defense and no hospital, despite the continual information provided to them showing them why they should live in FL or CA, as part of our national policy, they need to take responsibility and quit complaining.
Perhaps they should form a collective company, wherein each citizen works a few days per week/month at minimum wage in order to first build themselves a Q5 defense system and then build a Q5 hospital. Perhaps NY or TX should take the initiative and do this instead of all this belly aching 'we need hospitals, waa-waa'.
If you are so in need and refuse to move, then go build it yourselves.
The only good thing that hospitals support is a more diversified electorate, which may be a good thing. In terms of war damage and healing more hospitals in only a drain on resources and therefore benefits only our enemies.
BOTTOM LINE - if you want to participate at any level as a solider move to CA or FL. If you want to just click, live wherever you want because a hospital means only something to those who do the fighting.
Animis - Your missing the point of the argument. We need the hospital's for citizens who don't understand why they need them. If it were a matter of people getting over their state pride, I'd agree with you. But even then only in most circumstances. A q5 in NY would add a good amount of damage to the US ability to win a battle. Is it worth it? Don't know. Someone would need to study the numbers and calc an ROI. But it would make us stronger, no debate about that.
I was a newbie, figured out the game, and moved to a fortress state.
I don't understand why everyone else can't, either.
Listen ppl it's not like the US is under major invasion everyday. This is about doing what you can to help player retention.
Good article Aeros. I remember arguing before WWIII about hospitals and I got about nowhere, I hope you fare better. I still contend that the fortress strategy isn't as great as it is said to be. The higher a wall is the more we have to throw at it to build it back up. The gold required to attack is a good deterrent, but if a country really wants to or needs to attack then they will regardless of the cost.
Again, good luck, I hope you fare better than me and don't end up moving out of frustration like I did 😛
PS: Q2 hospitals benefit no one, it is a false security.
Seriously, Q2 HOSPITALS ARE THE BIGGEST WASTE OF RESOURCES WE CAN DO.
WHY DO YOU THINK THAT HUNGARIAN TROLL IS COMMENTING ON THIS TPOIC. HE KNOWS Q2 HOSPITALS ONLY WEAKEN e-USA!!!
Did anyone ever stop and think that a contributing factor to the e-USA being overrun by PEACE-GC, was that we has a bunch of insufficient hospitals. The Q difference is 20% per level, which means that for a non tank, an average solider in a Q2 region can only fight twice, maybe 5 times, if beserking as opposed to 11 times if a Q5 is available. Q2's - Weakness AND Hospitals without population and defense systems to protect them is =FAIL.
PEOPLE, USE YOUR HEADS---- SHEESH!
BRAVO, well said!
ROB: In terms on NY and TX, you may have a good point in terms of population. NEW players simply have to move if they want to be soldiers. Without significant population and a defense system a hospital is just a nice target area and or a great staging area for an invading force to use.
New players need to stop thinking like this is like RL and think in terms of the game mechanics and learn to play accordingly by listening to experienced players and actually take their advice by moving to CA or FL.
I am with you all the way Aeros.
I entered the game just before the North American War and never even heard that there was a Welcome Committee until I was above level 6. I happened to read a newspaper article telling citizens to move to New Jersey (at the time a Q5) or Florida and I bought a moving ticket myself, because I didn't know there was anyone to ask for a free one. How many new people don't see the newspaper articles (like this one) that explain things or don't understand how moving tickets work?
VOTED BECAUSE ITS A BAD IDEA
brazil noobs dont get they should move because of the low Qs hospitals on regions that arent fortresses
@Duke of York-My story is almost exactly the same, I started about a month and a half earlier than you though
@Zoli-Then we tank that wall until we force it into the underground
I was one of those players that "slipped through the cracks" as well I was never contacted and didn't even know where to begin. In fact my elife only began after I found your paper Aeros. I fully agree with Q2 or 3's in NY and Texas. I would have quit or sunk into inactivity long ago if it hadn't been for your papers. The government programs only help those with a knowledge of the forums and IRC. True noobs to everything eRepublik like myself do not benefit. Most of the newer players that join and then quit are probably much like I was as an ebaby. I don't even see why there is a debate if Max is willing to pay. If you keep the hospitals below Q5 people will move to the fortress regions once they have grown up.
Anyone who doesn't know the importance of a hospital will also not understand how to use it.
This is a proposition to place infrastructure that noone will use.
Education will make more of a difference than new infrastructure.
I agree with Aeros completely. I started this game with a mentor and I STILL floundered in Minnesota, not knowing what I was doing. We need a president who will put down his/her toy soldiers long enough to think of the future. Hell, in a few months Poland could take over the whole world 😛
If it's at no cost then it's a no brainer. It won't hurt the fortress system, because anyone who cares a damn will move anyway, either out of patriotism, or to clock four more fights per day.
We don't live in Commie-town! People need to be self-sufficient in this game, and this is a good way to do it. People shouldn't have to beg and barter or wait for a handout to make something of themselves.
AKG, you're a very sociable player. Chances are you found the forums right away and started asking questions. A lot of people don't play that way.
Every game I play there's this group, usually the elite, who think they can control what other people do or how they do it. They think they can order, or ask or crap. You can't. People do what they're comfortable with. Cater to them. Nudge them in small ways that don't hurt. The cumulative affects are amazing.
Aeros FTW
I believe that many people quit before they can even fight rendering this strategy pointless
I agree with Aeros , eUSA should build Q5 hospitals at least in NY and Texas .
This is really important to keep new players in game .
If Poland can have 6 q5 hospitals I don't see any reason why eUSA cannot have at least 8 .
This is absolutely necessary if you want to have a big baby boom.
Regards
Your Friend from Poland .
Long live USA !