Lipstick on a Beaver - Why Titanium Rental Makes Doesn't Make Sense
Day 968, 15:30
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Published in USA 
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by
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by Jacobi
Lipstick on a Beaver
Why Renting from Canada Doesn't Make Sense
I may not always love you
But long as there are stars above you
You never need to doubt it
I'll make you so sure about it
God only knows what I'd be without you
- Jacobi to America
I don't want to call it an article, because its nothing like most of my tl;dr fests, but I wrote an article yesterday stating that Canada will never rent its titanium to anyone because it would lose its monopoly on the EDEN/Brolliance market. This led to a counter article by my friend Ligtreb and then a few other Canadian articles commenting on both of what we wrote.
I don't want my article, such as it is, to be misinterpreted as anti-Brolliance or anti-American or a bunch of things that were insinuated by some commenters; it was me making a demotivational poster and then an in joke about how 2600 gold was misplaced (rea
So here to set the record straight, is why Canada will not be renting a titanium region to anyone:
1. The Price
Here's the first fundamental mis-communication. For most Canadians who have a say in it, the minimum rental fee for a Canadian titanium region would be around 2000 gold a month. That's about what Poland was offering us for Manitoba (which is fundamentally less important to the economy) and it should be noted that the Canadian Congress rejected that 2000 gold offer anyway.
That price most likely doesn't make sense to any American planner because the region isn't worth that much to the US in terms of tax revenue. This is the first and primary stumbling block which leads into a general rule: The rental fee can either be worth more than the region is, in which case America should not rent, or less than the region is worth, in which case Canada should not rent. There is no way that both Canada and the United States both win.
2. NWT is not Karnataka
In Karnataka, a grateful Indian government made a generous lease offer because of Brolliance efforts to liberate that country from its oppressors. It was a decision made by a country that, until that point, had barely been operating as a force in the world and needed a generous gold infusion to develop. Also, India had no means of effectively using Karnataka at that point anyway.
NWT is currently being exploited effectively by a Canadian economy where 46% of migrated workers are harvesting and owned by a reliable and stable country that does not need gold to survive or develop. It'd be nice to have, but there's no desperation involved.
3. The Polish Scenario
Let's say, for the sake of argument, that America decides to pony up the cash to appease the Canadian elite, so about 2000 gold. It is highly likely that such an extravagant amount of gold per month is unsustainable for the wealth that would be generated and we would run into the situation that Poland recently did with the rental of American regions: A generous offer is renegotiated down to a more manageable level, something that would provoke the ire of Canadians who would believe it to be a bait and switch. A strain on North American relations would most certainly develop in any resolution, either if Canada said yes and felt resentful for being put into that position or if Canada terminated the deal we would see the same sort of trolling of India that was seen when the Karnataka departure was announced...only worse because our countries are so close and supposed to help each other. A purely business deal would be tainted by the cross-border friendship with the significant possibility of harming it.
4. Canada's Monopoly
Many have said that Canada does not need two regions. In a vacuum, if one region simply ceased to exist, they would be right. Canada would produce the same level of titanium from just one region. However, the people who use this argument to support renting are forgetting that the traded region wouldn't simply disappear economically, but would be placed in the service of directly competing against the remaining Canadian business'. Canadians would lose access to the US titanium market and start competing against stronger American companies internationally. An uneven competition it would be, as Canada's high dollar and higher wages would place it at a significant exporting disadvantage. Markets would be lost and titanium supply might even be doubled, leading to depressed prices, decreased wages and lost jobs in Canada.
Is that something America really wants for its bro?
5. Export Licenses
What I really think should be done, that is much less economically harmful to Canada and just as beneficial to the United States, is a export licensing program that extends brolliance wide. Canada concentrates on its core industry, titanium, and then imports the core industry of the US, weapons, back to Canada. A Common Market with the free exchange of gold and limited top-down government interference in the generation of wealth. The costs of subsidizing export licenses for land ought to be especially minimal considering most land companies got gold back from having their companies forcibly downgraded. There are very few negatives to a program like this, and a lot of positives, the best being that it does not put any strain on the North American friendship, and with economic integration and interdependency strengthens it.
Conclusion:
NWT is not Karnataka and Canada is not India
Canada will want much more gold than the US can or should offer, likely 2000 gold per month.
Even if the US gives Canada 2000 gold for titanium, the amount is likely unsustainable and will lead to awkward renegotiations that will strain our friendship.
Renting a region will hurt Canada unduly, and giving gold to Canada that doesn't cover the economic costs is not bro behavior
So renting from Canada is not feasible, practical, or desirable for any party, and could strain our relations.
I love America, and I love the Brolliance I helped create. And I also want what's best for the United States because what's best for it is likely what's best for everyone on this continent...and I want the best for my bros. But though this idea is attractive on face value, it isn't the best.
John "Jacobi" Carpenter
Why Renting from Canada Doesn't Make Sense
I may not always love you
But long as there are stars above you
You never need to doubt it
I'll make you so sure about it
God only knows what I'd be without you
- Jacobi to America
🙂
I don't want to call it an article, because its nothing like most of my tl;dr fests, but I wrote an article yesterday stating that Canada will never rent its titanium to anyone because it would lose its monopoly on the EDEN/Brolliance market. This led to a counter article by my friend Ligtreb and then a few other Canadian articles commenting on both of what we wrote.
I don't want my article, such as it is, to be misinterpreted as anti-Brolliance or anti-American or a bunch of things that were insinuated by some commenters; it was me making a demotivational poster and then an in joke about how 2600 gold was misplaced (rea
😛stolen) by the previous President. It was not meant as a serious commentary on a serious issue.
So here to set the record straight, is why Canada will not be renting a titanium region to anyone:
1. The Price
Here's the first fundamental mis-communication. For most Canadians who have a say in it, the minimum rental fee for a Canadian titanium region would be around 2000 gold a month. That's about what Poland was offering us for Manitoba (which is fundamentally less important to the economy) and it should be noted that the Canadian Congress rejected that 2000 gold offer anyway.
That price most likely doesn't make sense to any American planner because the region isn't worth that much to the US in terms of tax revenue. This is the first and primary stumbling block which leads into a general rule: The rental fee can either be worth more than the region is, in which case America should not rent, or less than the region is worth, in which case Canada should not rent. There is no way that both Canada and the United States both win.
2. NWT is not Karnataka
In Karnataka, a grateful Indian government made a generous lease offer because of Brolliance efforts to liberate that country from its oppressors. It was a decision made by a country that, until that point, had barely been operating as a force in the world and needed a generous gold infusion to develop. Also, India had no means of effectively using Karnataka at that point anyway.
NWT is currently being exploited effectively by a Canadian economy where 46% of migrated workers are harvesting and owned by a reliable and stable country that does not need gold to survive or develop. It'd be nice to have, but there's no desperation involved.
3. The Polish Scenario
Let's say, for the sake of argument, that America decides to pony up the cash to appease the Canadian elite, so about 2000 gold. It is highly likely that such an extravagant amount of gold per month is unsustainable for the wealth that would be generated and we would run into the situation that Poland recently did with the rental of American regions: A generous offer is renegotiated down to a more manageable level, something that would provoke the ire of Canadians who would believe it to be a bait and switch. A strain on North American relations would most certainly develop in any resolution, either if Canada said yes and felt resentful for being put into that position or if Canada terminated the deal we would see the same sort of trolling of India that was seen when the Karnataka departure was announced...only worse because our countries are so close and supposed to help each other. A purely business deal would be tainted by the cross-border friendship with the significant possibility of harming it.
4. Canada's Monopoly
Many have said that Canada does not need two regions. In a vacuum, if one region simply ceased to exist, they would be right. Canada would produce the same level of titanium from just one region. However, the people who use this argument to support renting are forgetting that the traded region wouldn't simply disappear economically, but would be placed in the service of directly competing against the remaining Canadian business'. Canadians would lose access to the US titanium market and start competing against stronger American companies internationally. An uneven competition it would be, as Canada's high dollar and higher wages would place it at a significant exporting disadvantage. Markets would be lost and titanium supply might even be doubled, leading to depressed prices, decreased wages and lost jobs in Canada.
Is that something America really wants for its bro?
5. Export Licenses
What I really think should be done, that is much less economically harmful to Canada and just as beneficial to the United States, is a export licensing program that extends brolliance wide. Canada concentrates on its core industry, titanium, and then imports the core industry of the US, weapons, back to Canada. A Common Market with the free exchange of gold and limited top-down government interference in the generation of wealth. The costs of subsidizing export licenses for land ought to be especially minimal considering most land companies got gold back from having their companies forcibly downgraded. There are very few negatives to a program like this, and a lot of positives, the best being that it does not put any strain on the North American friendship, and with economic integration and interdependency strengthens it.
Conclusion:
NWT is not Karnataka and Canada is not India
Canada will want much more gold than the US can or should offer, likely 2000 gold per month.
Even if the US gives Canada 2000 gold for titanium, the amount is likely unsustainable and will lead to awkward renegotiations that will strain our friendship.
Renting a region will hurt Canada unduly, and giving gold to Canada that doesn't cover the economic costs is not bro behavior
So renting from Canada is not feasible, practical, or desirable for any party, and could strain our relations.
I love America, and I love the Brolliance I helped create. And I also want what's best for the United States because what's best for it is likely what's best for everyone on this continent...and I want the best for my bros. But though this idea is attractive on face value, it isn't the best.
John "Jacobi" Carpenter
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Comments
Renting is like RENT
http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/525-600-reasons-to-rent-1456161/1/20">http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/525-[..]/1/20
You guys are crazy.
If you actually cared about your allies you would be more willing to rent out a region.
voted
"If you actually cared about your allies you would be more willing to rent out a region."
also, that sounds extremely similar to what a teenage guy would say to his gf to get laid for the first time.
just sayin'
There are many people in Canada willing to rent out a region, but the asking price will be too high for America to want to pay.
Geez, Jacobi, we just wanted to be inside of you... ; ;
Whatever bros.. Do what you want, eh. But Jacobi is obviously not an economics expert and doesn't really see the big picture. You guys need to take a better look into this and if you still feel you need the extra region, your loss. 😛
Also why were you considering Poland over us?? ;_;
@Astra Kat G: I still want America inside of Canada, just for different reasons 😉
@Turd, To my knowledge, Poland has never asked nor have we ever approached Poland about renting. Also, they have far too few harvesters to effectively use the region.
Turd has a point, the USA are our closest ally, Poland et al still hold us for helping us a year ago, and it isn't a positive kind of hold, its a do this because yadda yadda yadda type of hold.
We paid off our debt to EDEN, let us help our one true ally.
Jacobi, I'm glad you wrote this follow-up.
I don't know the numbers well enough on other side, but failing to meet a reasonable price is an acceptable reason not to rent.
I do agree with a lot of your points above (except the monopoly one, irony, I know).
First and foremost, Canada-USA relations must not be strained by this.
I voted just because of the great Beach Boys song. 🙂
Though to be clear, from a game mechanics standpoint, I would prefer you rent to someone (it doesn't have to be USA).
Canada wants to keep her regions not that big of a deal
but i was looking forward to America being inside Canada 🙁
this will push america to try to find a new way of getting titanium and make things more interesting
Everything ligtreb said x2. (Couldn't have said it better myself)
Eden as a whole will most likely suffer from your desire to exploit the monopoly status you have over titanium. Indonesia is another country with thousands of citizens and they are but a few steps away from having titanium besides Russia. Greece, USA, Romania, Sweden, Poland and YOU have activated MPP😒 against yourselves and Croatia and Sweden are already reaping what they sowed, are you certain we will be able to defend ourselves when our enemies have such an advantage over us in terms of natural resources? Especially when USA will most likely get thrown out from India and be completely reliable on imported resources to produce weapons. I think you should act as a true bro and share from what you have to achieve better resulst on the battlefields in the future. Now is not the time for selfishness or we are all going down.
What comes to closer economic relations, we won't be exporting anything to Canada before you lower your ridiculous import taxes.
At least 3,000 gold.
At least.
I believe I think I just lost about 50 IQ points due to reading this. Thank you for taking me steps closer to being retarded.
It would be nice if the U.S. could sell to Canada like they are allowed to sell here.
Well I guess that Canadians do actually care about their sovereignty, shame on them!
Why don't they sell everything like America did?
it would make more sense for USA to rent a south african titanium region. South Africa could really use the gold to defend and develop itself as well as having america in south africa would provide further security to the region.
i'm not sure how the swaps would work though.
1) Isn't Canada part of EDEN? And isn't part of the EDEN treaty about Economic cooperation? Saying you need to keep both regions because you don't want economic competition hardly helps your relations with your allies. In fact, it is likely to cause a lasting dent in relations with EDEN/the Brolliance.
2) What will happen while Canada enjoys its' monopoly?
a) Canada is a low population country (and how many of you are harvesters?) Especially when the war module kicks in, Canada will not be able to fully staff its' titanium mines. Wages will go through the roof. The price of titanium in EDEN/the Brolliance will go through the roof. This will partly be ameliorated by high wage seekers moving to Canada. Initially, Canada's allies will simply have to pay whatever Canadian companies want.
b) Eventually, most, if not all, major Brolliance/EDEN countries will set up military-run titanium companies in Canada. To avoid the cost of export licenses, the stuff will be smuggled/"donated" out of the country. Canada's major benefit will be the income taxes it receives from the foreign workers. Hopefully, that will be at least 2,000 gold per month.
c) Why not just pay thousands of gold in export licenses? Because that money goes to Mr. Admin, and disappears. Wouldn't it be better to give that money to Canada instead?
fwiw, Canada can do whatever it wants, and I don't see the US turning away from this alliance (although I really don't think some of your (PM Jacobi)'s comments on this topic have brought us closer).
I can see it if you simply don't want foreign troops on your soil. But if you're expecting this to be a gold-mine for Canada at your allies' expense, I don't think you've thought through the long term economic and diplomatic repercussions (not just of your decision, but the rhetoric you've chosen to defend it).
@Jon Barack Bluejacket
1) The EDEN treaty does not require countries to give up economic resources
2) Canada has 1066 migrated harvesters...the US only has 1400, Poland only 1500. We may be a small population, but we far more active per capita and are devoted to the land sector.
b) Who is going to try smuggling out 2250 titanium per q5 helicopter? No one.
c) The export licenses would bring far more value in efficiency in the long run than simple gold donatives.
Frankly, any country who thinks that Canada wanting to keep Canadian regions for its own benefit is selfish isn't much of an ally to Canada.
Sossu: Canada doesn't want imports coming to her, we are looking to export out, which is not affected by our import tax.
Yeah, Canada! If you truly loved the US, you'd let them inside of you. Stop being such a tease.
/teenage peer pressure argument
@JBB
gimme gimme never gets don't you know your manners yet?
jbb wrote
"c) Why not just pay thousands of gold in export licenses? Because that money goes to Mr. Admin, and disappears. Wouldn't it be better to give that money to Canada instead?
"
you could probably create more than enough export liscenses in the opportunity cost of declaring war + region swapping. how much gold would THAT cost? and instead spend it on the liscenses and opening companies.
i don't understand the hissy fit here, if canada would only accept 2000 gold per month and you can't earn that in taxes from the region why would you even want to do it?
So I just got done reading your article as well as Ligtreb's article. I've concluded that the main issue the eUS has with eCanada not renting out a region is that the eUS is scared that the price for titanium will be high because eCanada won't have to compete with anybody.
That's pretty much the only issue I see... You make excellent points. Rental amount not high enough, uneven competition between eCanada and eUS, NWT is not Karnataka... Also, if the eUS rents and the uneven competition goes in favor of the eUS, then eCanada will lose jobs because titanium companies in eCanada won't get a profit.
So the eUS needs to pay enough gold to eCanada to balance out the amount of gold eCanada will lose from the rent. If the eUS doesn't rent then eCanada needs to keep titanium prices low.
So how will eCanada ensure that titanium prices stay low?
"NWT is not Karnataka and Canada is not India"
If it wasn't for the USA (and of course EDEN), Hungary would be still sitting in Canada without bigger problems.
Okay you get to rent but we get alaska wiscounsin maine and both dakotas
seriously
i dont care how important titanium is it sounds to me like americans dont give to shits about canadas right to keep there regions
there our bros not our slaves they want to keep there land
insulting them isnt going to change there minds
It's a poor Bro who won't make a sacrifice for the greater good when it is absolutely necessary. Only Canada has the capability to rent titanium to the good guys. And without doing so, PHX will VASTLY outproduce us in titanium. Russia alone has more people than the 3 other titanium-blessed countries. Subtract a PTOed Australia, and add it to Indonesia, and we're talking about a 4 to 1 difference. We will be buried under a heap of PHX-built artillery and choppas unless we can get another large labor base access to titanium.
We'd do the same for you. In a heartbeat.
That's the difference though. Canada would never ask.
But your answer is right there: "absolutely necessary." There's no evidence that it is "absolutely necessary," at this juncture.
And its not as if someone can use two choppers at the same time, the limit is in how many people chose art/heli which is 40% versus the iron weapons of tank/rifle.
And I'll choose this time to remind you that in the 60% iron category, EDEN vastly outnumbers PHX.
is it just me or by looking at the erep world map, everybody has titanium, and lots of it.
its just u cris
I have to agree with Jacobi way to often ...
Well Jacobi, I hope you and the rest of Canada change your mind on that day when Quebec falls to the French. It won't be too late then but that would make us all look stupid when it could have been prevented so easily. Hopefully we invade Russia so we no longer have to discuss about this.
I haven't seen any official comments from the eCanadian Gov't on this issue so, I'm guessing they have adopted a wait and see attitude.
I'm also guessing that our titanium regions have been bulls'eyed by several competing nations. I say competing nations vs enemies as, when the chips are down, we are all in competition, whether allied or not. I'm hoping we are more than able to defend them when the time comes, without tying up too many of our experienced military teams.
Some tough decisions may need to be taken by all concerned. Let's hope we don't lose too many valued allies, potential allies in the process.
If someone attack canada we can fend them off we have titanium but if america says we dont have the manpower thenthey can imigrateto canada and work if theyre that dedicated
Well, you (the US) could always just go and take a high titanium region from someone else.
Instead of renting this region, you could invite citizens from other EDEN countries by articles and ads. They will have much more money by working here, and you will have it from taxes. Good for everybody and you'll have your high titanium. Sorry for my english 😛
repeating what Mawasha said!!:
"If you actually cared about your allies you would be more willing to rent out a region."
also, that sounds extremely similar to what a teenage guy would say to his gf to get laid for the first time.
just sayin'
eAmericans are welcome to invest and work in eCanadian titanium companies.
If you guys love us so much, so come on over and help us make titanium.
NO to selling out eCanadian workers for bags of gold for the elite class.
lolllllllllllllllllllllll
Two points:
1. Tell us more about the eUSA dropping the rent Poland pays for its regions...all the big guns said what a great deal it was going to be, and yet - the Poles reneged on the terms ? And the eUSA just rolls over and lets 'em get away with it. Oh, what we wouldn't do for the "greater good" - for our "ally". Looks like extortion, smells like extortion...
2. All the game mechanists claim that this is necessary to optimize production. Whose production is being optimized ? For what purpose, and for whose benefit ? It seems to me that, if we are really, really, really and truly "bros" it is simple enough to set up shop extracting in Canada, export across national boundaries for cheap and manufacturing in the eUSA. What, do tell, is wrong with this picture ? How many people do you need to displace and work in Canada ? Would become Canadian be any worse than moving to a fortress state ? Would you have any less rights there, feel less part of the eUSA political system. Just asking.