I Denounce You
•
by 1nterestingch4racter
THIS IS MY PERSONAL VIEWS AND IS IN NO WAY AFFILIATED WITH MY PARTY. It's not exactly like you need anything else to attack us with is it guys? And yes, I'm talking to Dish and to a lesser extend, shadow. when I started eRepublik, I looked up to these people as figures of authority. Now I realise the simple fact. You're bullies.
That's right, I've said it. I expect to receive a lot of hate over this, but hopefully people will understand reason. Firstly has anyone noticed how rude these 2 are to people? They run around insulting people and having huge rants and get away with it. If it was anyone else we would be telling them to stop. But no, they are well respected, political figures within the eUK so it makes it perfectly acceptable. NO IT DOES NOT.
I am sick to death of every way I turn, those two are constantly slagging off anything to do with the MDU, and anything that upsets the established order.The house of Lords for example. Dish has fought against reforms so hard, and for no apparent reason apart from it challenges the status quo. And Shadow, insulting our party members, including someone who a lot of people hold in great esteem and I want you to apologise to Tommy Tommasino. And this MDU helpline stuff, it was set up to help the people and not to boost MDU membership, but no, we're out to corner people into joining the MDU aren't we? I'm sick to death of seeing you launch long rants about this and that and intimidating people, telling them that they don't have enough experience, making them feel like they don't count and that their opinions aren't worthwhile.
Well I count. And so does everyone on those forums, everyone has a right to speak up and to have their views counted without fear of them being torn down and dismissed. And Dish, I don't care if you're on of the best Presidents we ever had. I don't care that you're an established member of the community.And Shadow, I don't care that you set up the forums. You're meant to be watching out for this thing, not doing it. You're a hypocrite. I expect I'm going to be attacked for this article, yelled at, told I know nothing, that I'm lying, whatever. I don't care someone has to stand up to you and it's going to be me. Vote this article up if you're sick of older members thinking they can boss everyone around and do what they like. Vote it up if you believe in democracy, and fair and open debates,and a right for anyone to post without feeling intimidated. Vote this up if you believe in what the eUK stands for. Say no to bullies.
IndieKid, Congressman
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Hear Hear!
I agree about Dish. He has been very brash on the HoL reforms, and while he does raise some good points, he doesn't care what anyone thinks. Which, when you aren't PM, isn't a good thing.
I haven't read through most of the posts, but in terms of ATLANTIS, Shadow is completely correct. You don't know anything about how it works (for better or worse) so you can't judge it.
I know everyone likes to attack the MDU. And quite frankly, I don't think the amount of flak you guys take is warranted.
What he said! /\/\/\/\
They have good points, they are just presenting them in a brash and patronising manner.
Wtf at the comments switching places o_0
I commend the MDU for disputing the established order.
Perhaps a more concerted attempt at co-operation between parties is in order.
About the MDU Help-Line thing: It isn't just Dish (and Shadow if he too is meant to be) that is against the Help-Line having MDU in front of it. So please don't make it out to be like they're ganging up on that end.
About the Dish is evil section: Dish also has a lot of good points, but no one will listen to them (which is why he might be frustrated/annoyed). He has a right to fight for the HoL, as he's in it and believes it to be important. I myself am against the reforms on the HoL that are trying to be implemented.
(just my two cents)
you never support dish or uk reformer so he should fight
🙂 i disagree with the article, i see where ur coming from but...Allot of people insult Tommy...and dish isnt the only one who argues their case, also...when u argue ur case..you always win =-p dish isnt a person whos backs down till hes won which is great 🙂 and yes..ur in diff political parties insults WILL fly at each other..its impossible for none 😛
also for the experience thing..ur ideas and opinions are not ignored because u have less experience BUT changing the LORDS is an important thing =-p whats the point in having it if it dose nothing? people say "change it like RL" but the thing is..one mistake and thats us..this isnt RL its Buggy eRep with lots of enemies willing to do a LAND grab /gold stealing/country ruining
its best to listen to the most experienced..ever sit and wonder why the most experienced ppl in eUK disagree? 🙂 doesnt take that much to add it togeather 😛
P.S this isnt an attack of any sort onto you 🙂 just a different opinion 😛
What is most annoying about all the HoL issue is a. you have used the wrong tactics and b. you won't shut up about it.
If you had gone about it in a less confrontational way you might have got somewhere... However now you encounter opposition it has just become a long drawn out slagging match. You blame Sish but it takes two to argue.
Agreed completely, I've always liked Dish but his behaviour has been unwarranted. Not just to my own party, which hacks me off as well, but the absolute arrogance in which he's handled the Lords debate. You're not as old and wise as me, so please shut up and let the grown ups talk, etc...
Sara - I'll agree it takes two to argue, but it was put up for public debate, and we're getting slagged off and put down - which has NOTHING to do with the proposed HoL reforms. What, the MDU isn't meant to defend itself?
Take the HELPLINE - few level heads, and a bit of proper debate and a compromise was reached. Amazing what happens when people actually listen to each other.
Im so glad that i went to india.
When i was in the UK i never saw Dish like you have suggested, never ever and that was for 4 months. Neither did i see shadow like that. i dont know the whole story but why all this fuss over the HoL??
A lot of people want reforms because they believe that the HoL needs to be reformed. The HoL are refusing to believe all the polls, saying they represent hardly anyone, but most of the active members are for some sort of change. However, this needs to get through the HoL and they don't seem to want to give up their power. Dish is fully in support of the HoL and no change, because of the status quo will be changed and he has been really quite aggressive in his arguments.
Allot of ppl insult tommy, and he hasn't been saint himself either. so let's not make him into the martyr he clearly isn't. For the HoL discussion, all arguments where brought in after the 2 pages, the rest was just ppl nagging about it and insulting each other, and agreed the situation got out of hand, but let's not blame me and dish alone for it. Tommy is as much to blame in this as us and many other ppl in that tread.
Same for ALANTIS: It frustrates me immensely that he keeps nagging about it without knowing what it is. I mean do some proper research first plz.
because let's all be honest, I may sometimes act immature, and I'll openly admit that, but you gotta admit that tommy's a nagger first class and he went totally under-researched to the ATLANTIS debate.
"because of the status quo will be changed and he has been really quite aggressive in his arguments."
because you don't listed to dish's arguments. HoL is the best working organ in our political system. It's way better then HoC, but for some reason that doesn't get trough to you guys
If you want to hear my reasoning about the matter, I think it should be an advisory body. I live in a democracy and I as an elected congressman, I want to use the vote I was entrusted with and not have to answer to a group of unelected people who have just been around longer than I have. I understand they might point out things that need changing, but I feel that it's bad that they can just reject legislation and make us rework it. It just slows the whole process down.
'It just slows the whole process down.'
Rather a slow, CORRECT piece of legislation rather than a rushed, INCORRECT piece of legislation.
So only the top 3 get members in the HoL? I thought it was for contributions to the country, not just on party affiliation
'So only the top 3 get members in the HoL? I thought it was for contributions to the country, not just on party affiliation'
No, the pissing and moaning started when it turned out that new Lords DO NOT require approval from the MDU PP.
You have a Lor😛 BBB.
I don't understand your point widdows?
The reason I started this House of Lords debate somewhere, was after I read the rather irritating comment "We don't need MDU approval btw" in the Lords. After BBB questioned this and Dish replied "well get your Commons rep to edit it" or something, we followed procedure and brought the issue to Public Discussion.
So we are criticised for questioning it without actively doing anything about it, and then when we do do something, we are criticised for that too. So what..are we just not supposed to question anything?
We have followed proper procedure and brought it up. This is a democracy and also why should everything just go through the big 3?
No the point I'm making is this: you guys didn't seem bothered about the HoL before it came out it was up to the big 3. So I expect you guys to reform it so that it includes you or the top 5 or whatever, which is fair enough, I don't have a problem with that.
But then, you lot start proposing to reform the whole of the HoL, go on about making it advisory or elected. Now to me, and others, it looks like one of two things: that you're jumping on a bandwagon of public discontent with the HoL when really you weren't that bothered before and/or you want to reform the HoL purely because you guys aren't involved and you want a bigger slice of the pie.
See, where I'm coming from?
I do understand where you're coming from, I'm not sure about the others but I believe the HoL to be a backwards establishment that needs to be changed and reformed. I think that the top 3 hold a monopoly on who enters the lords for no good reason, just because they have the most members but hardly any of them are active. They can then have influence on the bills that are put through parliament. See where I'm coming from? The HoL can effectively control what happens in the eUK because they are in the top 3 generally and influence party decision. I'm just saying there's the possibility for corruption
what do you think will happen once you destroyed HoL (coz basically that's what you are doing). This is what will happen:
Now you give a chance to new ppl to play and to go into politics. I've already heard from several players that if the HoL loses it's powers, they simply go to HoC. Then you take away places from newer players. Do you really think that if a votescannon like for example widdows or Dish moves to South west, Richard york still stands a chance against him? Dish just asks 10 or 15 ppl to come with him and he wins by far. Same goes for all those other regions. And now I'm taking Dish as a example, but there will be many more. Half HoL will want to go to HoC and I guarantee you that MDU will lose every single one of it's congressman then. Is that the result you will want to achieve with this?
Coz that's how the elections are going to be then due to you guys. the big party's won't suffer from this. We will have our congressman, I bet we'll even have more congressman then with the HoL. It's the smaller party's like MDU that will suffer. If this is going to be way of voting, then MDU should praise itself lucky if it will even get a chance to get a wildcard congresman. And do you really think you'll still get members then? If there's no chance to present a congressman? Do you really think that a party with no congressman will survive?
And If I where a HoL member that has just been kicked out of HoL by MDU, where do you think I'll go settle and stand for congress elections? That doesn't need much guessing, does it?
True I suppose. But wouldn't that just be vindictive and directly targeting my party? I do see your point I suppose, it does keep older members busy, I just think it's a bit unfair that that's what would happen. Just because they have some support and are popular. It just shows how far they will go to cling onto power
'And If I where a HoL member that has just been kicked out of HoL by MDU, where do you think I'll go settle and stand for congress elections? That doesn't need much guessing, does it?'
What - you think that the MDU will be kicking you out of HoL? For the HoL to be abolished it'll take a LOT MORE than just the MDU, it will require SERIOUS co-operation of one of your so-called 'big 3'. So before you go off MDU hunting, take a look at that. Everyone is so quick to run down the MDU, because we challenge the status quo, dare to make daring proposals-and then defend them to the last.
Widdows made an interesting comment
'BECAUSE MDU ARE PISSED AND WANT A PIECE OF OUR PIE.'
OUR PIE. That's right folks OUR PIE. It is not the UKRP, PCP or TUP pie, it's not even the MDU pie - it's the PEOPLES PIE. We believe in Democracy, and the right of the voters to decide what way the country should go in. We don't take what we have for granted, and if the people are against us, we'll no-longer have a party. But guess what, we're here, and all we want is our fair say...nothing more, nothing less.
Exactly. You're meant to do what's best for the country, not yourself
Why can't we all be friends?
I wish we were all happy like we used to be in middle school. I wish I could bake a cake full of rainbows and smiles and everyone would eat and be happy.
"I just think it's a bit unfair that that's what would happen. Just because they have some support and are popular. It just shows how far they will go to cling onto power"
hey, that's politics, man. live with it or get over it. Politics are never fair. they aren't in RL and they sure aren't in here either. I'm not saying that I support it. I'm saying that that is what will happen, whether it's fair or not. If I can chose to stand for congress in a region where I need stand against a PCP candidate that had 50 votes last time, or against a MDU candidate that only had 10 votes last election, I don't need to think long about that.
thehorse: If you take away the HoL's power, then it's nothing more then a hollow bag. No one will want to be in it coz the HoC will not give a damm about what the HoL says. The HoC will laugh the comments of the HoL and still proceed it's own way. Making the HoL into a advisory organ is the same as abolishing it. No one will want to stay in it and you'll get the scenario I described below.
and your comment about MDU hunting: as far as I can see, it's only the MDU that wants to change to HoL, so lets call matters as they are and dare to admit that it's MDU that wants to destroy the HoL (and destroying is exactly the right word, you find other more publicly accepted words like "reform" or "giving it a smaller role", but it all comes down to the same: destroying the HoL)
and widds comment: "BECAUSE MDU ARE PISSED AND WANT A PIECE OF OUR PIE."
English is not my native language, but even I can see that that "our" refers to "his" party (the party's "he is in"), so I don't really see what's wrong with his comment.
"I wish we were all happy like we used to be in middle school. I wish I could bake a cake full of rainbows and smiles and everyone would eat and be happy."
I wish we could stop nagging about the HoL and leaving ATLANTIS, the 2 only decent working organs in e-UK
''BECAUSE MDU ARE PISSED AND WANT A PIECE OF OUR PIE.'
OUR PIE. That's right folks OUR PIE.'
I meant by the word 'our' the Lords in general.
'Do you really think that if a votescannon like for example widdows'
Lol, I love the way I'm described as a vote cannon, beware people, or I will shoot you down with my mass cult following of voters 😉
Oh and put it this way, if I get kicked out of HoL because it gets abolished or reformed in a way I don't like so I resign, then yes I would join congress, and yes that would take a place away from a new player, so think on that 🙂
and widds comment: "BECAUSE MDU ARE PISSED AND WANT A PIECE OF OUR PIE."
English is not my native language, but even I can see that that "our" refers to "his" party (the party's "he is in"), so I don't really see what's wrong with his comment.
Yep - your band on in your translation, but it's the context that's getting you. He was refering to the HoL as OUR PIE, as in UKRP, PCP & TUP. The arguement that the HoL belongs to no party - it's meant to be a body representing the people, not any political party.
''BECAUSE MDU ARE PISSED AND WANT A PIECE OF OUR PIE.'
OUR PIE. That's right folks OUR PIE.'
I meant by the word 'our' the Lords in general.
Has the MDU said it would seek to elect any of it's own Lords....NO. And, once again - IT'S NOT YOUR PIE. That pie belongs to the people who you're supposed to represent.
'That pie belongs to the people who you're supposed to represent.'
We don't represent anybody, we're not elected and we're not party affiliated in the HoL so we don't represent anyone do we, the whole reason you're all pissed and want to change it all is because you only have one lord, have no say in the decision making process and so basically want more of the power for yourself tbh, and nothing you say will make me believe opposite.
"I wish we were all happy like we used to be in middle school. I wish I could bake a cake full of rainbows and smiles and everyone would eat and be happy." Cakes don't create heated political discussion, although I do like cake.
Now to the article: Well, it should obviously win the wooden spoon s**t stirrer prize as its managed to kick up this much of a fuss.
I'm a little confused about what windows9000 said about "that you're jumping on a bandwagon of public discontent with the HoL" how can you jump on a bandwagon of public discontent? If the whole public is discontent then it isn't really a band wagon its more of a oh, look that needs changing... we should put that in our policies in order to help press for change.
Cake is good.
@Indie: You obviously, from this:
"So only the top 3 get members in the HoL? I thought it was for contributions to the country, not just on party affiliation"
Have zero idea what even Tommy was talking about. Or CV James. Or your own party. It means the Top 3 PP get a vote in the acceptance of new Lords, not who can be in it.
Rather than responding to this "Dish and Shadow are so mean" stuff, I'll remind you of something:
I was the one when you started that helped you along to do several things. One, I gave you the address on the forums your first day when you PM'd me. Two, I was the one who advised that if you wanted you should run for Congress, and three, I was the one who told you that just because your views aren't the most popular it didnt mean they werent accepted.
And frankly, I'm a judge in the eUK system of legislature, not a babysitter. I don't care if Commons likes what I say, or the public for that matter. I'm here because of my experience and what I offer. If you or anyone else wants to take my spot, then be my guest. We can compare resumes and time spent on the eUK, and see who comes out on top.
And horse, you're a little mistaken. We don't represent anyone. We check Commons, which is the representation. There's a major difference there.
One comment actually caught my eye:
@Horse: Dare to show us these "daring" proposals, considering I have seen one from the MDU in it's entire existance?
This is an interesting debate, with good (and bad) points on both sides. I can see the view regarding the fact the HoL are not elected, but then again, lets think of the fuction of the HoL...it is supposed to be a body of experienced politicians who can help balance the HoC, which often has inexperienced, but enthusiastic members (like myself). If we were to elect an HoL, potentially noobs like myself could get voted in, and I do not feel that i would have the experiece necessary for what the HoL should be.
Now, if we just do away with the HoL, it means Commons does not have that check on its power. HoC in my opinion needs the views of the experienced politicians, to advise and sometimes rebuke.
Beyond that, I do not know of an easy answer to this political hot potato 🙁
Dish, thanks for your advice when i started, but I just felt you were being too agressive and not taking others opinons into account.