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An alternative idea number two is a great option. We should prepare in time for a discount in November, and we should consider founding additional state-owned companies

Well, as MoF, I am doing my best to collect Gold with left-over budget. Cancelling Congress Tax (a reliable source of Gold) would hinder those efforts quite a lot.

If I understand it well, with the alternative idea proposed, we do not actually removing the fee, we direct this money in accordance with the needs

Well, the last idea out of three presented does that (and in theory, would be a bit unnecessary to even vote on, as that's what we already do). But I have to assume the author wants to debate all of his ideas.

No. 3 looks best for me. I belive in that fund!

I don't really believe in many options. You either have it or you don't. Designating a Black Friday Fund to it, is not really a change (and don't know how that would be 'put down' by Congress) and more so status quo (but should be done if it's around, regardless). Same for complicated schemes like 'returning' it when CM is active: not worth the trouble/administration.

For simplicity sake and its relative low value (unlike the past), not to mention cc and gold are exchangeable with one click (and most of the times more profitable to do as Government than just stocking up both) + the fact that one time we 'tax' CM 2.5G x 500cc and the other time 2.5G x 800cc it seems a relic of the past. Or rather phrase it as: If we didn't have it in current situation for years already, I don't think anyone would break a sweat to implement it. It also makes it 'lucrative' for Governments to push for 40 seats (which I personally like too), which doesn't translate the concerns I sometimes see about how Congress means nothing any more due to its size.

"not to mention cc and gold are exchangeable with one click "

... well, not in terms of budget, especially now, when Gold and CC budgets are finally counted and written separately (which, despite legal requirements, was never properly introduced in the Sheet before.. and I think we all remember when people like odan actually criticized me for reworking the Sheet to fulfill it, so I understand, why it was not done)... but otherwise, for normal people, yes 😃 .

Also, in case anyone is confused - for months, we no longer collect currency from CMs, but solid Gold. After reading the comment, I kinda got the opposite feeling so I just want to make sure it is correctly interpreted.

Either way, ElGorro last month introduced program, which costs Gold to maintain, and now offers to remove the only reliable Gold source of our income. Does not click too much together. And seeing the activity of certain Congress members at certain times, getting the tax is often the best thing that those members do to contribute to the well-being of this nation 😛 .

...ya know, thinking about it, this now sounds like I rather support option 2 instead of 3 😶 . Either way, as MoF, I can't give up on Gold easily, as we need it for those communes, new programs, and Black Friday!

Oh yes, I was not intending to suggest we collect cc instead of gold, I was alluding to its value 🙂. And yes, we (finally) count ''gold'' budgets too - but that also means in theory we can convert as much cc into gold as long as we account an equivalent value in cc that fits the budget. So there are more ways than collecting gold than by CM Tax (which obviously alone wouldn't be enough for plans in November).

I don't like option 2 - I think it's way too complicated and turns the argument around - that CM Tax being given is a ''reward'' instead of just.. tax. Not to mention I highly doubt just backbenching and voting but doing nothing else in the game at all is contributing to our nation either. Makes me wonder what ''democratic activity'' even is - you could even argue participation discussion is more important.

My party is of course notorious for not everyone being ''politician'' (it doesn't help that lately we need to push a lot of candidates; but we do get the biggest lists filled and don't lose out on ''candidates'' like other parties do), but I wouldn't say people missing votes are not contributing. So, if not removed in the end, I still don't think we should have such schemes.

True, there are more ways to collect Gold - but they are all reliable on the size of the budget (and you know the tendency of some Presidents to spend budget away randomly without thinking on investing to the Gold we need). That's why we need to keep reliable Gold income - and as it happens, CM tax fulfills that perfectly!

" Makes me wonder what ''democratic activity'' even is - you could even argue participation discussion is more important."... of course it is, but you cannot measure and reward that in a just and reasonable way. And if you did so, it would lead to bad things happening (forgot the odan spam and the blackpatje feces picture yet 😛 ? That, according to them, was also participation in discussion, so you would have to deem that as more important, despite it being a nonsense)

Either way, I find interesting that while you rally up against certain tax decreases (and you claim they are hard to reverse, if done), you are okay with another ones (which, as you very well know, are even more harder to reverse). Just saying 😛 .

I'm not against decreasing WT per se. I was just a tad irritated by the hosannah singing about its economic effects 😛. I'm fine with decreasing it, considering there is a lot of money and giving some people, even if big producers, some alleviation. But to return to CM Tax, it is something with a lot less factors and importance involved than WT, of course. My reasons for wanting that gone are more principal, hence why I've been calling for its removal for a long time, before we even were in the current comfortable financial discussion and could even think about decreasing WT.

And of course, with financial safety now, it's a lot easier to act upon such principles.. In that way it is kinda similar to motives to decrease WT (or at least why I would vote in favour of that, even though a lot more money is involved in that).

Well, just remember, that unlike in-game taxes, change like this is probably irreversible, because the procedure to re-introduce such a tax again would be more tedious and less understandable for population. And with arguments I have seen from you, I got the understanding you are pragmatically against irreversible tax changes... unless you switch into ideology mode as seen here, singing "Sadam Husseins" (or whatever words you use) about long unnecessary laws - which sometimes irritates me 🙂 .

Do not take it in any bad away, "ideology" (just like self-sufficiency") is not some evil or vile (hehe) word, I am just trying to rationalize your incosistent remarks made in last few days, nothing more 🙂 .

That is the point I was making, the fact it is deemed irreversible (like I said, if it wasn't in place now, we wouldn't be thinking of CM Tax at all) shows that it isn't that rational unlike WT that is part and parcel of the game and eNL. Seems like conservative ideology protecting traditions at work 😛. If we have the financial comfort to decrease income by a fair bit on WT, why not on CM Tax that is way lower?

Because one is focused on actual working producers, and one on... well... insert adjective... Congress 😛 ? And being conservative is not exactly a negative trait, if the traditions you tend to protect actually seem to work good. In fact, you would not want a nuclear operator, who does not think conservatively at times, trust me 😛 .

Oke so we've seen a big debate between NoTie112 and Janty F touching both cngress tax and work tax (inspired by the other active debate).

Tonie clearly wants to see the CM tax removed.
Not sure what Janty F's position is.
BangIades likes to see the CM tax continued but with a pay-back based on voting activity. Based on the voting data provided by Tim Veltkamp last term 11 people didn't make the 75% mark.
Van der Kaczy likes to see the collected CM tax to be added to a fund for black friday which the government in november can give away to people based on the program rules (which are yet to be drawn up).

I believe that we should reward the active and they shouldn't only be rewarded based on their military efforts. Removing the CM tax is a step in that direction.


General comment on both this CM tax and the Work tax debates. They both effect the government budget but do not effect the capabilities of the government to run their programs. In other words together they will reduce the gov budget with quit some money but this is not a problem thanks to our concessions and the monetary money program.