Join the new world

1. it's impossible to keep someone out of a military unit unless you go to invite only.
2. excluding blacklisted people from programs was voted down a few months ago.
3. definitions of what fighting against interest are way too vague.

Apart from restricting access to a military unit (and that is a good solution), it is possible to set a higher military rank as a condition of recruiting, since we all know what kind of accounts are reason for this proposal

Further, since there is an up-to-date list of our allies, it is not difficult to determine the strategic interests of the country

DAF is the national MU so needs to be open for all new citizens so restricting ranks isn't a viable option.

haven't seen any articles from mofa in like 40 days. and i can't even recall if mofa posted an article with any kind of up to date list this year.

Heh, the comment above reminds me of not-so-distant times, when the commenter was reported by our allies to fight against them 🙂 .

Either way, I know, why this proposal exists, and I personally prefer solution to vote about the person directly, and establish a precedens by his case. Though, in general, this topic is also worthwhile debating, if only to collect opinion on what different people exactly consider worth blacklisting in terms of doing military and foreign affairs harm to our nation.

meh probably going for a SH or BH somewhere.

You know very well, what I talk about - your "avatar Germany" rage 😉

no idea what you are talking about.

Well, do not worry, the goverments do.

It was absolutely not a SH/BH hunt odan 🙁

well i can't recall it and info on it isn't being shared by gov, so.....

Just an example - the TW with Turkey, damage done 5 minutes after you read message from MoD and replied with words, I cannot reproduce to not get FP for vulgarity? I was online, so I saw that happening together with several other gov. officials. And it shared numerous times to the citizens of Netherlands, including yourself...

Of course, if/when you do a lot of harm, it is easy to forget one one or two incident... 😉

tw with turkey? doesn't ring a bell.

I will help you:

https://prnt.sc/omrkct

It took two tanks (one German and one Dutch) to turn the battle that day. Only because you do not want to wear DAFatar 🙂 . Or you got no presents fro mSanta, given the day this happened.

meh round 1 bh with a potential claim for ch. probably had some stuff expiring.

No wonder our allies have no respect for you, when you treat them with "meh" 😉

don't project your feelings towards me on allies.

if it really was such a big problem they would have contacted me personally, something i would have remembered.

Oh believe me, when I say the feelings are quite international 😉

Well, our government did contact you, after we were pointed at the issue - but since you claim to forget all about the incident, no wonder you forgot that part too.

Sadly it are international feelings odan. Comes by often during international talks. Even your obvious clones are well known and laughed at. The fact there is no respect at all for you and that you are not taken seriously does not help our nation at all.

guess i need to be more active again. or perhaps it's just newbs that are influenced.

i have no clones so probably just someone bad talking me. i have an idea who but that is probably obvious. the fact that that is able to bad talk me says enough about the current international affairs....

not to blow my own horn but i'm one of the persons that kept us relevant and in our current alliance. not that long ago...

Maybe calling our allies newbs... is not really going to help. Rather start fighting for them instead - these days, people can use all the help on the battlefield they can get. Just a tip from someone, who actually was relevant in the alliance, when he was in FA positions 😉 .

I do agree, however, the concrete proposal to exclude particular player from DAF is prevented with no real reason and I believe it would happen every time. Therefore, I believe it is necessary to protect any possible sensitive information and our international reputation through legal procedures

No

We are not voting still, we're looking for opinions pro et contra

Had this debate in the past. Some reasoning: impossible to handle, how about allies, how about merc medals and BH and no need to enlarge our Lawbook.

When erep implements something a like ingame we can consider. But for now, just no.

The point here is that some account does a significant amount of damage in an important campaign against our ally and will also fight against the Netherlands when there will be the chance. Of course, paragraph 1 can be further adapted to avoid confusion, as we had now

It’s debatable if we should have this as a law for a lot of reasons. Main reason to work on first; ask citizens if they know who our allies are etc and most won’t know the answer apart from 4 or 5 obvious ones. 1st challenge; let gov provide an up to date, always at one click accessible list for every single citizen. I even made a sheet for it a while back.

Apart from that we have had several players fighting (hard) at the wrong side that were never ever judged on it and we also have players that fought for a BH/SH or simply merc medals punished for political reasons. To make the latter harder congress part should never be part of such a law. Only a command team (not only being commander plus 2nd or so) should be able to judge. Such a team was proposed a long time ago already to manage several DAF matters but never implemented. Also politics imo.

If that is dealt with plus some other stuf it could be an option but like odan sai😛 managing it will be hard so like ElGorro said ingame we need something for it. But I’m all in for a good command team (I called it militairy council in the past I believe) with powers over the MU and inbetween gov and DAF command.

I have included all the relevant suggestions from this debate in the law that we will vote on

This is a tricky topic. I think we want to keep DAF open access, so that new citizens can immediately interact. In the app, the MU chatroom is one of the most important interaction platforms.

So then on to the subsidies. If we want to exclude people for fighting on the wrong side, who is going to
- check who people are fighting for
- judge them? And this includes weighing good behaviour with the bad behaviour...
I guess the first answer will be "random people noticing this", and the second answer will be congress, through a vote.

Also, I expect that people can redeem themselves. So who is going to assess this... It is not so simple, even if we would incorporate this into the lawbook. The other blacklist is mainly meant for people who clearly abused their congress/gov position in a way that harmed eNL. Repercussion: people are not allowed to be in congress/gov anymore. I would say this is not so much a punishment, as also the sensible thing everybody would do to prevent such bad events reoccuring.

This new blacklist cannot prevent repetitions. In the end, people can still fight on the wrong side, and it's hard to do anything about it. And congress can already decide on individual cases that a specific individual should not get any more government supplies (through a motion). So if this becomes a serious issue, we can already take action.

For the time being, I would say that adding extra text to the lawbook, that we could use in a hypothetical case, is not necessary. Afaik, nobody requesting supplies is using these against eNL. If we ever get such motions in place, it may be more convenient to add some paragraphs to the lawbook about a military blacklist, but for now I think it is simply unneccesary.