The Unrealisticality of Government Owned Companies
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Dishmcds
So, just to be clear, unrealisticality isnt a word. Just thought it applied.
We're seeing a movement towards Government run and owned companies here in the UK. The problem lies within the overproduction of goods that occured with the stoppage of the war module, the change in the production formula allowing Raw Materials to produce massive amounts of goods (along with the first point), and the overall capitalistic approach that is being forced into today's workplace. Companies are suffering from the wage schemes they've come up with, paying through the nose for less than skilled workers. We currently havent come up with the new suitable wage scheme through unforseeable changes from Beta to V1.
So, first, why Government owned companies wont work:
As RonaldChris pointed out in one of the Unemployment articles earlier this week, we've got roughly 1900 people in the United Kingdom. Of those 1900 people, roughly 900 to a 1000 have jobs, leaving about 900 people out in the cold. This has occured through companies shutting it down due to high amounts of stock, and the recent lack of GBP (which was at an insane rate of .30 for some time) that has since been corrected. Companies simply were forced to invest at those prices due to the lack of GBP, which has depleted many of the Gold reserves that those companies had, including larger corporations such as Ape, KFC UK, and even Aurum has had it's difficulties. Many people have said a Government owned structure would work better, but I believe this to be a falsehood. Why?
The new production formula limits most companies outside of construction to 10 workers for maximum productivity. Using this, we'd need roughly 90 new companies to combat the unemployment problem alone. This would increase the oversupply problem, and eventually we'd end up in the same cycle. Even Government owned companies would be forced to pump hundreds of Gold into those companies to pay salary, which would eventually prove as expensive as carrying 29 MPP's (which is another issue for another time).
So, 90 new companies to combat unemployment? That means we'd be looking at, at the very least, about 150 GBP per week invested in each company, making total cost somewhere around 13,500 pounds per week just to run the Department of Work. For those keeping score, that's about half of what we recently proposed to give the Ministry of Defence. And that's per week.
So, overall, the problem is two fol😛
1. How do we get around the production problems we've had due to a long oversupply cycle?
2. How do we continue to employ people when we know we're simply going to take a loss?
Proposal: The Small Business Administration
Earlier this week, a relative newcomer to the UK (and good friend of mine) brought something to the public eye. He had asked for a loan to consolidate some of the lower quality companies. When it was met with the Government owned idea, he pointed out that this is something that would normally be handled by a small business administration, in charge of loaning monies to struggling companies, so they can stay afloat during times of need. This would be two fold.
For those who weren't here for it, several months ago a proposal was mentioned for a "Social Responsibility Contract", or SRC which it has been called. I was opposed to the idea as it was written, as it encroached on a GM's ability and rights to manage as they see fit. Under the terms of the Small Business Administration, I would propose a contract (which I've written a small draft of in light of the request of the loan by Dnouser) to ensure that GM's that wanted to apply for help in times such as this would be required to sign. It wouldnt be near as long, and ensure that GM's still had the ability to change prices, employ people as they see fit, and simply operate in a manner that wasnt harmful to the eUK. The only terms I saw proper to include were:
1. Price floors: Price floors for each product (ie moving tickets, oil, food, weapons, etc) are going to be essential to developing this idea. A GM who sells beneath a price floor for the sake of selling is automatically taking a loss, which is both unproductive from a GM's standpoint as well as a community standpoint (counting against interdependance, which I'll outline in the summary).
2. Sales limits: Part of the recent issue is that companies who have overstocked for some time due to poor management decisions (ie keeping an absurd amount of employees), and undercutting (or a combination of the two) are one of the reasons we've reached the valley we're in now. They are setting mountains of product at cheap levels (ie 7K stock for .20 food), which is simply trying to offload stock. This will not work, as the other companies will not have sales, and eventually try to undercut just to make enough to pay their salaries. Rinse, lather, repeat.
3. Extension periods: If it's deemed that the result of the loans are being met, then extensions may be granted in the loans. Each and every plan or initiative has the possibility of working, but until it's put to proper use, we won't really know. Things such as the TfL, Unions, etc could possibly work, but they need to be put to use first in order to determine if we need to either change them slightly or scrap them altogether. Just as monitoring tax rates are necessary more than once per five months, monitoring sales habits of GM's are just as necessary.
Interdependance:
Right, so I use this term quite often, but just so everyone knows what I'm referring to, I'll redefine it in Erepublik standards briefly.
Each and every company in each industry is interdependant on the other. While it's nice to make all the sales you possibly can, not one company in the UK, including the larger corporations like Aurum, TB, or PI, could employ each and every worker, if for no other reason than the productivity formula would make it impossible to maintain a profit to the GM (or Government, if you care to debate that point again). Being that food, our main source of life here in Erepublik, carries a max of ten employees for maximum productivity, at any level (which to me still sounds somewhat rediculous to have built a Q5 company that can only carry 10 employees at max), Aurum relies just as heavily on companies like TB and PI to carry their max employee level as well. Oil companies are interdependant on Moving tickets to sell in order to keep demand up (which isnt happening in case anyone else noticed), grain is necessary to build food, but due to the lack of sales and large amounts of stock even food companies are being forced to shut it down until some of it sells.
Let me be frank about something: Government Intervention in the economy happens every day, whether you want to admit it or not. By releasing GBP into the market or pulling it from, we're affecting what a savvy GM should be charging for their products. We've dropped the rate down to .028 recently to maintain a lower currency value so companies can charge a bit more for their goods while maintaining a relative value to Gold on the market. Just because we're not selling "Government Cheese" (which is one of my favorite expressions, btw), doesnt mean we're not affecting the market. It just means we're not selling directly into the market, affecting it directly.
Solution:
So, in my point of view, asking for the Government to own their own companies is rather unrealistic. We'd need to set up and run 90 companies (which is about 3 times the size of Aurum for those keeping score at home), the money involved (roughly 13.5K per week), and the time in making sure salaries are paid according to skill, and so on. GM's make profit because they keep track of these things. Good GM's can make a decent living while not working because: They put all the work into making their company successful. If they don't they arent successful, it's that simple.
1. Don't sell more than 50 per time (possibly 100 in food due to the amount required per day and the pain it is to have to constantly log on), at a price floor worked out for each industry. I'm going to talk to the MoW and see if we can, together, come up with some kind of floor for each industry and quality.
2. Don't undercut, you're only killing yourself.
3. Realize this problem has nothing to do with the free market. This has been a long time coming in most countries around the world. Oversupply has been an issue with Erepublik since the beginning of time, and we're just going to have to work with it until the production formula is fixed to each type of good it produces. It's unrealistic to expect one formula to work for both Grain and Hospitals.
4. Small Business Administration: This is going to be proposed to Commons as of this evening (my time, this morning UK time). I think this is going to be the best way to encourage growth, satisfactory working conditions, and ensuring that both our unemployment and market problems are fixed all in one nice neat little bundle. This is going to require GM's to both cooperate while maintaining their independance as General Managers, rather than extensions of the Government.
Thanks for your time. I hope that you're at least willing to look at the positives of this proposal rather than who it's coming from. This is neither a campaign speech nor does it need to be. We're reaching a boiling point, where good GM's are going to be affected rather negatively here. We've skirted this line for some time, and no matter where your vote lies, this needs to be dealt with.
Thanks
Dishmcds
Minister of Trade
Comments
I will just make a point about this figure of 90 companies.
Given the oversupply currently rampant and causeing the problem the government would not need to invest the 1800 gold to make 90 companies. 3 would suffice (one for each skill set).
However the loan of GBP to keep companies going is good. especially with the conditions which will probably be worked on and debated.
The problem you outline is exactly the same, if not more prominant for private enterprise.
If the Government can't afford to employ everyone, no-one can.
@Both: Yet we both know with the deficiencies of the productivity formula it promotes more companies, and any employee over the max number is less than profitable. The Government cannot afford to employ everyone, but I'm sure with the 1900 citizens we have, including starting fees, and monies earned through the exchange market (which as I outlined was rampant for some time), there's more than enough to draw on and get through this with minimal help, in the form of low end GBP loans to companies to keep salaries going. There's absolutely no need for the Government to create three companies (which last I checked it already has) and employ everyone considering the 1000th employee on the productivity formula would make as much as any other yet produce less than the 10th employee to work does.
actually all 100 employees would produce the same amount, 50% less than if there was 10 employees but my point is if our problem is overproduction then what is the issue. As soon as there is no over-production then there is going to be more companies and jobs available due to the free market.
"as soon as there is no overproduction"
Um, I've been in erepublik for almost a year, and overproduction has always been an issue. Even though there have been shortages at times, there will always be overproduction so long as we're using the same productivity formula for each industry, which isnt conceivable. Different industries should produce different amounts.
'Using this, we'd need roughly 90 new companies to combat the unemployment problem alone'
You're way off on that figure. Out of those 900 who are unemployed I would say at least half are inactive.
But you couldnt provide an active list to determine who is, and who isnt. So even then, we're looking at 7K plus GBP per week. I wouldnt call that "way off".
While I agree with the author of this article on many points, I do feel that direct government involvement, through owning and running companies, is needed.
An event quite similar to this occurred in the real world. It was called the "Great Depression". Herbert Hoover tried to sit out the depression, and because of that, it undoubtably was worse than it would have been if "The New Deal" had been instituted from the start.
Also, as Tim09 has said before in his articles, a war would really help, just as WWII help jumpstart world economic growth at the end of the depression.
Sorry that this comment is kind of long, but as a new citizen, I don't have anywhere near the money needed to form my own newspaper, especially at this exchange rate.
Um, who do you think founded the ideal behind the Small Business Administration?
Which one, Hoover, or FDR? I'm not so hot on American History, being Canadian.
Or for another real-world comparison, look at the financial markets today. The central banks, particularly in the real UK, are nationalizing much of the banking system. So far, this seems to be working. The current recession is predicted to be much less harsh than it otherwise might have been. While, like in the real world, an eUK government intervention plan will have no doubt come too late to dodge many of the harsh realities of a recession, it could help prevent the situation from compounding.
The SBA package, as I see it, will only serve to exacerbate the oversupply situation by creating many more companies operating at peak efficiency. A few extremely large government supported corporations would help alleviate the unemployment situation. Workers with money would then buy more things, thus creating a ripple effect of economic prosperity. This would also occur with the SBA, only many more goods would be produced, which is the opposite of what needs to happen.
That said, however, I do like the Social Responsibility Contract. This alone, though, will not help us out of this recession.
Again, sorry for the length.
The way i read it you were saying we couldn't have government owned companies because we would need 90 companies for 900 people. Why not just have for instance we had 20 companies that would be 45 people per company. This means that it is way over the maximum production but that is good, one of the main problems is over-production and correct me if im wrong but after 10 workers the more you have the production formula starts working against you so production is reduced. This means we need less companies and also less production. I know what i mean but i don't think i explained it very well, sorry 🙂
I know what you mean Jack, but if we're going to rag on GM's for not being responsible with their goods, it doesnt give us the right to turn around and do it to solve the problem. If we're truly going to go around the max number of productive employees and "solve" this situation (which, honestly this is nothing more than stop gap to begin with), we'd be much better of by allowing the companies who are already in business to do it, anyhow. They already exist.
And @Intrepi😛 The current market has flaws, the major two being that overproduction is still an issue (even after complaining about it for 11 months), as well as the productivity factor of having a max number of employees (the only true way to solve it is to differentiate the equation to match each industry seperately and to allow higher quality companies to carry more workers, to be honest). This is going to give companies some relief on salaries (which we'd probably be looking at 500-1000 GBP per company, seeing as the war module is probably about two weeks away, at best guess). Once the war module is released, it will stimulate weapons, gifts, and higher quality food (because of the loss of wellness), where we can then move workers back into those fields. The more pay they'll receive (which is inevitable once sales rise and skill goes up) the more they'll have to spend on things such as housing. Moving tickets will go up as a by-product of people moving to fight, and so on.
Things will improve with the release of the war module, which we've all been waiting well over a month or two for. It's rumored to be close, so frankly a drastic move to Nationalise all industry would be a little much. Most GM's just need a little help until things pick up again.
And your answer is Hoover, who grandfathered the idea. Roosevelt made it popular, but Hoover was the one who planted the seed.
Thank you very much for that gem of knowledge. I forgot to mention this before, but this is a very well written article. I've only been active for 3 days, and I've already noticed that there's a huge number of people complaining, but not many actually thinking of anything to help. Let's just hope the war module gets up in 2 weeks as planned.
[Before I begin I would like to state that the views i am about to put forth are based on a real world economic model and therefore could be totally flawed, I would embrace any discussion that could enlighten me as i am a newcomer- thank you]
It seems to me, from what I have gathered in the media, that the Euk Economy has two main economic problems, firstly that there is oversupply, and secondly there are high levels of unemployment.
The proposals put forward by Dishmcds are interesting but I fear they would not accuratly address the issues. Whilst these proposals would, in the Short Run, reduce unemployment as the investment would create an incentive for companies to produce and employ, in the Long Run it could lead to a disaterous economic crash. The reason being that Labour is a factor of production, and by increasing employment you would only succeed in increasing the oversupply problem which would inevitabley lead to a crash once the investment in these companies (Private OR State) ran out.
Whilst not good news for the unemployed, the fact of the matter is that this economy cannot handle more employment and therefore it should not try and increase employment at this current time.
The only way to tackle this problem of oversupply is to boost the aggregate demand in the economy, put simply, we must embrace capatalist consumerism- This is the point at which my advice ceases, because, as a newcomer, I do not yet know how to acheive this boost to Aggregate Demand in the economy.
P.S This is by no means an attack on all of Dishmcds' proposals, i just belive that trying to employ right now would be a mistake. The issues, especially the 'Social Responsibility Contract' require more scrutiny and I intend to address this at a later date when I have learned more about the market regulation in place.
After reading medai outlets and economic infomation on the game I have realised that the problem with the economy is that there IS no way to stimulate aggregate demand at the moment.
This leads to an interesting problem in that there is no need for Capatilism at all.
With no real demand(want) then there is no 'economic problem' of scarcity (infinate wants- finite resources) which means, in effect, that Erupublik is a 'Utopia'
Now I understand that there is a 'War Module' underway, and that should stimulate demand and hopefully more demand stimulating features will be incorporated to provide the means to a solution.
Until then it would still be unwise to implement governement intervention as the legislation could cause unwanted red tape ater the module changes and still lead to oversupply. The only exception I could see would be strictly emergency intervention until the module release, however a 'wait and see' approach could avoid problems caused by panic led legislation and allow a fresher attempts at economic solutions.
Slavin, you points are flawless (at least IRL) and the only economic solution that makes sense to me in this situation is for the eUK government to pull a percentage of GBP off of the market through taxation
This may cause some slight economic problems in the short run, but with the restictions on companies' wallets they won't be able to overproduce, which will make it so that new companies can compete with existing companies (instead of new companies being unable to realistically compete with the plethora of low price goods that existant companies that are still productive control).
This should generate an influx of new businesses into the market, which, sadly, won't solve the unemployment, but will at least employ a significant percentage of the unemployed population.
@Slavin: While I agree this is a short term solution, that's the intent of the SBA. To give out loans to companies who are struggling to help with the unemployment. It's our job as a Nation to ensure each citizen is able to be employed, which just isnt happening right now.
The result of the new productivity formula limiting the effectiveness of large amounts of employees has limited companies which are established from being extremely productive like they used to. While the old problem of overproduction has always existed, when it was only a few companies doing so it wasn't such an issue as it is now. The SBA would only provide relief in the form of private funding until the market accelerates again (which always happens when the war module is functional). By maintaining employment over the short term, and maintaining each company in the long term we'll solve both our issues, IMO. People will be able to be employed, plus we'll be well stocked when war is released (See: Australia, among others).
You're analysis is rather good, but I just wanted to convey that the SBA is intended to be a better short term solution simply to keep employment, not really a long term solution to maintain them.
@Karl Rommel
I assume you are referring to corporate taxes? do these exist in Erupublik and if so, in what form?
I feel your suggestion might be a neccesary one if Demand does not pick up, however using that principle at this time could be risky as in the current economic climate companies would not raise prices but rather limit production, which, whilst helping tackle oversupply would only increase unemployment.
But, as i said, if Demand dos not pick up after WAR module then this suggestion could be implmented in conjunction with market regulation to encourage more competition(i.e legislation similar to the SRC proposals) and fair trade practices (i.e no destroyer pricing tactics)
@Dishmcds
I agree now that companies must be kept afloat in this emergency (time until war module is released) However I feel I do not understand the SBA fully, could you explain in more detail how it works? Is it a private banking measure which levies interest? Or is it an indirect Government measure?
@Slevin: Basically, the SBA is a Government run organization that helps out companies by loaning them amounts of GBP (as I said earlier, since we're probably looking one to two weeks it's probably somewhere around 500 to 1000 per depending on size) to allow them to continue to employ people. Once the market stimulus is up again, products will sell (there's one HUGE change in motion mechanically right now that I really have to work on with Deilos) and things will pick up. The loans would work over a two to three month span to allow them to pay it back, which would hold us over, keep people employed, and the companies would have to abide by some of the rules that the PCP tried to initiate in their SRC.
So everyone should be happy.
@Dishmcds
What are the conditions of application for a loan? What are the terms of interest if any?
Thank you for explaining this to me, I can see that this, as a temporary measure, could be neccesary. Perhaps the SBA could even have a long term run if scaled properly.
@Slevin: I'd suggest joining the forums at www.erepublik.co.uk, and the proposal is listed here:
http://forum.erepublik.co.uk/public-discussion-f51/uk-small-business-association-t5574.htm
🙂