Mayhem and the CAF Debate
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by SaraDroz
I quote from an 'advertisment': "CAF soldiers get 1000 CAD of funding each per month for doing the same thing you do everyday... Why are they so special? These are YOUR tax dollars."
Now I can't be sure that this advertisment is from the originators of the 'Mayhem' conspiracy/theory of Government but it bears all the hallmarks... I shall assume that it does not come from Rolo & Co and try to discuss the topic impartialy.
Different Military Systems.
A. Nationalised Military.
I have lived, for shorter or longer periods (and for different reasons), in 7 ecountries over my elife. Of these the main ones were eUK, eRussia, eMalaysia and of course eCanada. All these enations had national armies that were sudsidised by their Government... (I might add so did eAustria, eItaly and eMexico). Why?
Well quite possibly because they believe that national defence is a duty of the Government. Simply put this arguement is that when you vote for a President you take into account his vision of national military strategy and he enacts this by subsidising citizens to defend the country. This way an army builds up (in our case CAF) and officers and Cabinet Ministers (Minister of Defence) follows. The State may also create State Industries to supply these troops which in turn leads to jobs for army personnel etc...
One of the biggest advantages of this system is helping new players. They arrive and understand little but once they join the national military they are helped and taught by the army itself. In this way they build relationships and are encouraged to learn and stay.
The second advantage of this system is that it alows Government control - and thus elective responsibility - of all the forces at the nations command. If the Government messes up you know who to blame.
On the disadvantage side this can go too far... In some enations whose forums I have visited you must enlist in their army before getting propper access (I was only an Ambassador!). The other matter is that because the supply companies for a national military are run by the Government they are likely to be based in the home nation. When you are attacked and lose regions this can cripple your supply lines.
B. The eRomanian System.
I cal it 'the eRomanian system' simply because as far as I know they developed it in the days of their First Empire. In this system ALL the army is divided in 'Corps' who own their own supply companies, every soldier must work for his/her Corps companies and the Corps Commanders effectively comprise the 'High Command' one of which normaly becomes Minister of Defence. The Corps also effectively (used to at least) subsidises food for their soldiers as they necessarily work for low wages to produce weapons for Corps.
One pro of this system could be compared to the US report of the British Regimental system in the Falklands where it was reported "The Regimental system and engendered competition inherent in the system became such that each Regiment excelled in trying to outdo their rivals...the levels of performance normaly expected (of US troops) were exceeded by this competitive spirit". Of course this can only be expected if you have more than one Corps.
The other advantage of course is that the Corps enables a certain amount of 'private enterprise' in that Corps members can contribute to their company system and profits can used on exchanges and in buying companies abroad which in turn helps the Corps -operative fund weapons and subsidise its soldiers.
Of course idealy this system is self suffiecient in the end but sadly (to my knowledge) the eRomanian Government was always funding the Corps and all Corps shared one military IRC channel as well as having their own. So on the financial aspect it is correct to say Government can save money with such self attempts at Corps-operatives.
The eCanada System.
Well we have both in a way; we have CAF and Crimsons. Well Crimsons can be considered as 'Corps' in the eRomanian system as they get Government funding yet run their own companies. Then CAF have their own companies and and also obviously receive Government funding as pointed out by the advertisment. What is the difference between the two?
Firstly with CAF you get elective responsibility, as mentioned above, also in this system the armed forces fight along agreed Government strategy.
Secondly Crimsons while enjoying Government funding, decide their own targets, though naturaly they are in close contact with the Government about targets. How much they are funded I know not.
There is a case here for a Unified Command. Since the Crimson Order receive essentialy the same Government subsidies as CAF why should not they be brought under central command structure? Sure let them argue their strategic view but that is what a Unified Command should do...
Conclusion
Essentialy the 'eRomanian system' can save money short term for the eGovernment but conversely the 'cooperative' nature of the system depresses the market on free market terms.The same can be said of any nationalised military system though that includes Government weapons companies. In the end both systems have pros and cons (and even within a national military you can have competiveness). In the end they both systems end up more or less the same - financed by the tax payers - of whom the majority are Corps, Militias AND National Armies who are also are the beneficiaries. The difference between our system and the 'eRomanian system' is the lack of a Unified Command - and of course competiton to the Crimsons.
SCAM? and Mayhem Theory.
Well I hope I have given a fair account of both military set ups that I know of. I am not sure what the 'Mayhem' version may entail but I should imagine a citizens army or some such which is yet to be explained. Certainly all those who can fight need a Unified Command and common Government agreed objective - civilian or CAF or Crimson - if you can fight you should be subsidised to do so. To not do this would set us at a serious disadvantage to every other enation currently existing. You have high iron, titanium regions and conquer them for purpose of a) producing more/cheaper weapons and b) depriving them to your enemy. Now it is possible that 'Mayhem theory' may lead an eRomanian style system but it is not clear that is is much different from what we have...
Is it a scam? My conclusion is no. It is the duty of the elected Government to protect our enation - they are elected for this and bear that duty. There are subsiduary arguements about Militias and so forth but they end up the same as the standing army - whose direction you can vote about. 'Mayhem theory', and this advertisment make little sense. Why did he not join CAF, or indeed the Crimsons? Perhaps too bothered about politics which is the real point of this advertisement...
Sara's Objectionables
Fine I make an advert and criticise something... got a remedy? If no then shurrup!!!! I find you useless!
Anyone who challenges the concept of elective and central Government control - which where this leads - weakens the national effort! This is objectionable to me and all who wish for a viable democracy!
If you got a point explain it. You don't though. Shhh!
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Comments
votato
i voted and i like the way you took a non-biased stance. But i am pretty sure CAF gets a lot more than TCO.
oh and TCO FTW😛 couldnt resist
CAF is wholely funded by the tax payer, TCO gets some funds yes but the majority of our weapons, food etc come from the sweat of TCO personnel in slave pits. If the government wants to increase funding then they can have more of a say in what the Crimson Canucks do.
What you also may not realise is that the TCO is a multi-nationality militia. The Crimson Devils have our own Government to liase with.
In that case is alleigance to be questioned? No, the point is to work out the best way of funding the military. I only contribute to the debate as rationaly as I can being CAF.
SaraD - wanna come down under? I await.
I see your Shhh! and raise you a Stfu!
http://www.erepublik.com/en/article/project-mayhem-1504183/1/20 - This albeit for a V2 model, but the concept remains valid
Long story short, no more special "boys" club - you fight, you get funded fairly. You need no other qualification or approval other than showing up and saying "provide me the means to fight for my country"
The TCO receives a pittance in comparison to the CAF, whereas they use their own sweat to fund the defense of eCanada. It is a requirement of receiving supplies, that you take part in the manufacture of said supply
A CAF member is free to work in the private sector, bank that cash, and then receive his handout at the taxpayer expense. I would be of a different opinion if they didn't get to have their cake and eat it too. The average citizen has to work for days to be able to afford weapons and food to rank himself up, CAF members can get rich banking their daily wages, while reaping the benefit of increasing XP and damage for doing nothing different on the battlefield than a regular citizen
If they want to be treated differently than a regular citizen, then do something different than a regular citizen. CAF slave pits as a requirement to receive government funding....would be a good start
Personal Sacrifices made for defense of eCanada
TCO > CAF
That.
Anyone (canadian) who shows up on IRC in a public channel designated in the MOD paper should receive funding and be considered a full member of the CAF. They are canadian, armed, and part of our fighting force. Nothing distinguishes a CAF member from a regular citizen save that they get extra benefits that, no matter how much you argue otherwise, not everyone else is allowed to receive.
It makes absolutely no sense to require anything other than a public IRC channel, or a pm to a designated org in game, to receive supplies to fight for eCanada.
I agree about the slave pits, if you want to be treated differently, do things differently
"There is a case here for a Unified Command. Since the Crimson Order receive essentialy the same Government subsidies as CAF why should not they be brought under central command structure? Sure let them argue their strategic view but that is what a Unified Command should do..."
I almost stopped being romanticly involved with myself when I read that, excellent fact checking.
There is something to be said about providing supplies to all eCanadians who get on IRC (good incentive) and want to participate in battles. At the very least the government should be providing food for free or subsidized to keep eCanadians in the fight longer...I mean how long can a newbie fight for when he's making 3-5 dollars a day. It would benifit us all for a new Health or Food program from the government instead of rewriting a constitution that isnt going to retain any newbies. Priorities.
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"Since the Crimson Order receive essentialy the same Government subsidies as CAF..."
I lol'd. Then I cried. Now I'm trolling.
Take a look at the budget, and then tell me TCO receives "essentially the same government subsidies as CAF".
Also, Crisfire is a butt.
TemujinBC's facts are right in that I am a butt.
I would have still been a normal Private in CAF, i've risen to a major in TCO due to my activeness and willingness to give for the militia. I am living proof that you dont need eAge to get promoted, not in TCO.
I like tuttles
"How much they are funded I know not."
"There is a case here for a Unified Command. Since the Crimson Order receive essentialy the same Government subsidies as CAF"
Please make up your mind whether you do know how much TCO gets or do not. As a newbie, when I fought in battles of Canadian Allies, I had no food supplied to me despite sending mails twice to the Canadian Civil Defense. Why should I as a normal eCanadian not get food to participate in the same battle that the CAF blokes get paid tons to do so?
Zeshan, don't mix up the CAF and the governement of Canada, they are two different things.
Join CAF if u want food "smiley"?
We shouldnt get caught up in CAF vs TCO but instead focus on whats best for eCanada, which is supporting new eCanadians, the government gets an F in that regard....wheres the health program, wheres the Ministry of Education and its articles, so far there might be vision but nothing tangible in this adminsitration but theres a couple more weeks.
tttuertles
We receive more supplies because we fight the official battles.
TCO keeps its independance at the cost of a good bunch of funding.
These are 2 different organizations.
But I don't agree that citizen are equal. People in the CAF make huge efforts to fight at the best times, to get where we need them to be, etc.
I'm sure it's the same for people in TCO.
So why would normal citizen get the same benefit? Communism doesn't work, sorry.
Join the CAF or TCO if you want subsidized fights, else, pay for yourself. It's not like if it was closed clubs.
😁that😁
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He has to get on IRC to recieve supplies (not cash) and there are or were ways to track who fights where.
The idea of eCanadian getting on IRC to recieve at least food to keep them in the fight longer is a great idea, ive seen a couple comments suggesting little or no help from the government in this regard.
thebigguy
by right times, its to make sure we win the segment. as theres no point in fighting in a segment where its postive 64 with a min to go, so we coordinate our attacks to win the battles we need to.
and as crisfire says its all tracked. and if u want to join its easy and simple, you get experince, a good community, friends, and supplies.
btw don't listen to the attack ads at the caf, the CAF ain't a closed club, and anyone can join,
@ChuckyNorris - I know they are two separate things. Don't get me wrong, I have no problems with CAF getting funds. But I objected to the ridiculous situation that normal eCanadians who fight do not get any supplies whatsoever, whereas a person in CAF gets paid,supplied,etc to do the same thing.
Why should a normal person be coerced to be a part of TCO or CAF to get supplies when fighting in a war? Can he not be simply an eCanadian, fight the same battle and at least get some supplies.
there are problems with that, some times opposing players will try to recieve funds from us. (its happened, i did a giving out guns for free, during v1,british people started asking me)
and its just gonna be a lot of work, about 4000 people are in canada atm, about 1000 of them aren't 2 clickers. this is going to take a long time and effort to arm everysingle one.
anotherthing is the government, or whoever is suppling has no idea who is misusing the system, if no ones fighting where their being told etc.
The TCO and CAF is different as the CAF keeps track of all the supplies, etc, to make sure any of the above problems don't occur. I think its the same with TCO
Actually not everyone can join the CAF.
If fighting at the right time is what matters, open an irc channel and say "all citizens who come to this channel and request weps betwwen time x and y will get weps and supplies" and make it even disregarding organizational background.
CAF is a closed club unless that happens. How can you argue its better for eCanada if you don't do the utmost to involve as many of its citizens as possible, and actively exclude the majority?
The CAF and TCO is open to all, any canadian regardless of strength or whatever can join, they can only be considered closed if your factoring in that youve got to be in one of them to recieve supplies.
People shy away from the commitment, perhaps an eCanadian Militia IRC channel backed by a government sponsored food program that gets its supplies of food from a government food company that hires new eCanadians, get a health minister and some underlings to doll out the food to applicants via org or IRC requests, keep eCanadians, especially new ones in the fight longer.
If the CAF is special because its troops fight at a specific time, it isn't open if it doesn't extend that opportunity to all canadian fighting forces, which extends beyond people who have filled out a meaningless gdoc or answered roll call.
TCO is a clearly different situation, what with the slave pits, less funding, and different mission statement.
All I am saying is it makes no sense to have to be in the CAF (via an unnecessary, time consuming, unreliable process) to receive supplies, if you are a canadian citizen in need of supplies and capable of fighting at the required time. Certain Elite troops can and should be reserved for special missions. But general funding should go to all citizens equally.
and also, CAF is not open to all citizens, because not everyone can join. They reserve and exercise the right to reject canadian citizens.
I tought TCO was a Milicia? Why should Milicia received funds? ST6, Eagles and All other Milicia in USA had to share 20 gold/weeks while the eUS military received over 2000 gold/weeks.. Milicia are private military goups and they are suppose to be self-funded..
samuel... screw off, wanker.
1ronman that aint true. CAF is actually open to all citizens, what u say might be in the past, but at the moment CAF is open to anyone.
TemujinBC
Thx Reported douche