A request to GPN
•
by NoTie112
Dear citizens of the eNetherlands,
My last article was received with both lot of criticism, but also received support for the actual content of it: the unhealthy democratic state of the eNetherlands. Of course, the article was ‘juiced’ up, but isn’t that exactly the reason why you kept on reading it and why you were even bothered to reply to it? Isn’t it part of the media, just as in real life, to grab the attention while having something important to say? Isn’t it part of the political game to speak harsh as the opposition, if needed? I think it is, and I do not think it gives reason to depart from the actual debate and issues, by lowering ourselves to irrelevant personal insults and attacks.
Now that I’ve made very damn well aware what the issues of the eNetherlands are currently, which is being recognized by almost every party and individual in our country, it’s time to call out for an united solution to at least some of these problems. First to tackle is the Congress issue, which everyone agree on to be unsatisfying at the moment.
As we speak, we have no in-game Congress. It was decided however that we still needed a legislative institution of power, which could base on the national forum of the eNetherlands. As the occupation was deemed to be a temporary solution, it was decided that the last legally elected Congress would extend its term until liberation. However, that liberation never approached (and will be waiting, too) and we’ve been stuck with an outdated and biased Congress ever since. A party which has fallen out of the top 5 since then, still holds 3/20 congress seats, while GPN holds a very unequal 9/20 seats based on luck and unfair game mechanics. A major party like DemNL and Libertas have virtually no seats currently, making opposition almost a lost cause - which should never be the case in a functioning parliamentary state.
A debate on changing this Congress system has been going on for months now, but is in danger of being forgotten. The last vote on changing of the Congress system was not the prefered proposal by everyone, but still was voted on positively by all parties. The exception? GPN consistently voted ‘no’ on the proposal. Whatever the reason is, be it preferring more direct elections than elections based on membership, be it afraid of losing the unequal majority it currently has, I, and many other with me, make this simple request:
I beg Geuzen Partij Nederland to allow Congress elections, or any form of an updated Congress. It’s one of the major steps to solving the so-called civil war in our nation, which lays in the hand of the current government/GPN. I do not think I’m being unreasonable, if I ask the GPN leadership the following question:
Will Geuzen Partij Nederland guarantee a functioning, fair and updated Congress before the end of their current Presidential term? Yes/No
Yours sincerely,
NoTie112,
Facebook
Twitter
Discord
Comments
...or are they scared?
Article 15 – Transition of Congress
1. A Congress term will end when a new Congress has been elected.
So this is a 'NO?'
Hey Joshua, gz with your job as Minister of Propaganda in Norway! \o/
Thanks! Happy to be a Minister!
Current congress is there because of democratic elections based on party size and priorities set within the party. As there was sometimes someone becoming inactive that has even been solved by creating the possibility of replacing an inactive member. Congress is functioning fine that way. Everything else isn't reflecting game mechanics and would only be a result of frustration by a few people that haven't got power out of the democratic elections. The challenge those people will face is keeping their amount of members active in the game so once new elections arise they well perhaps get some power by a new democratic vote. I wish you good luck with that but please stop slandering others for following game mechanics that obviously don't suit you're agenda. If you wouldn't have felt asleep after starting you're party you would have been in congress NoTie, but that's you're main downside; You're no constant factor so after building something you can't keep it up it seems which is sad as you seem to have a great way of attracting new players to the game and directly into you're own party. Would have been even greater if you did do that also on a more constant bases for the greater good of eNL...
Yes, the ruling parties can freely replace inactive members, while other parties are ousted from Congress or have seats without any current representation. This does NOT address the current problems.
Actually any party can replace there inactive members and no one is being ousted far as i know, its up to the parties themselves to decided weather they want one of there congress members replaced or not.
And your pleading for elections does NOT address the current problem cause we have no good way of doing this elections.
Just by going by party numbers is BS cause in all parties there are inactive that cannot be counted as being or needing representation since there not playing anyways.
And i have very much the feeling alot that say it will be fine don't do so out of concern for proper representation but rather they want to see GNP loss power so they themselves can gain it. If there is gone be some form of elections it needs to be done in a manner that it represents the active dutch citizens. Not be done cause some people see it as a way to gain power. And Anyone that is out for proper representation off the eDutch in the senate would agree that for elections to be hold in some fashion we first would need to work out a way of doing the election properly, and not base it on what a bunch of people decided who are stand to gain/loss power from it.
There needs to come a good plan, a plan most political active people can agree on, and than be brought before the dutch people in a article to measure how at least a part of the Dutch the (none politically/forum active) players think about it as-well, something that would indeed represent the will of the majority.
so if people promise to get regions liberated and they don't follow up on that is that also in-game mechanics, or a constant factor of building something up? Seems like you are the one slandering people btw if you don't like how they are involved in things. If people are excluded that is just a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Being excluded is the game mechanism. eNL has however a forum congress that is just the same as ingame by law. They get an extension of their term for as long as we have no regions. As a result the number of seats are fixed once we're occupied. What I see is people trying to get that changed by stating congress doesn't work. That ain't true. It works just as good (or bad) as any congress I've seen that was also active in game. I think current congress works even better as the percentage of voters is quite high. All thresholds were largely met while we had times there were even discussions on lowering the threshold as otherwise we couldn't get the voting done.
It just so happens that, in this case, mainly NoTie has once again set up a big party in a month time or so but has no power, which seems to be the main reason that he tries to get things changed and as a result regain power which doesn't follow game mechanisms at all.
As for you strange comparison with regions; You have no clue on what is done/worked on last year or so it would seem. Hardly a surprise as you have no involvement any more in eNL besides you're activity on our forum. A forum that hardly represents/matches with the things that are going on in-game. And it's my belief that in-game activities outweigh those on forum when it comes to game play. Unless there are ways to free our regions on the forum. I doubt that but am very much open to suggestions.
The forum is just a medium. I play the game like anyone else, if there is a PM in-game or on the forum doesn't change the fact that in-game nothing has happened at all for a very long time. And I think that Tonie is addressing the strange difference their is now between in-game congress (not existing) and the continuing forum congress, which has extended the legitimacy on a philosophical level absolutely to the max. Please refrain from comments basically saying "I know what is best, because I do this, and you do that". It's quite hypocritical to first deny people have no right to speak because they use a certain form/media, and at the same time defending it's laughable legitimacy. I do have a clue what has has been going on in eNL the last years and what has worked, namely totally nothing. So please do yourself the favour and stop claiming you are the only person legitimized to talk about what works or not. Fact is I'm the only person ever in the history of eNL being occupied by Poland to actually have gotten the country back on the map for a sustainable long period.
[removed]
on second thought; Its best not to comment I think....
@ DP: I rmember one that promissed to quit the game if people would vote him for a last time as CP. Well, he lied. And the last time something ahppened here, ingame, it's was during one of the VS administrations. And I belive he will do it again. He has a tendency to do so. 😉
and how do you want to hold elections?
We first wanted to have a system which gets updated each month based on number of membership of each party; it was voted down exclusively by GPN, who wanted to have a direct in-game election. When the opposition then requested to have the GPN option get to a vote, GPN has dissapeared out of the discussion, essentially fillibustering the whole process.
This is not a good idea, especially because your party members keep dying by the dozens. You are an ingame mentor, and many of the starting players join your party. But after a week or less they stop playing. That's no contribution to eNL's politics.
For starters, I'm not an in-game mentor. Also, I'm not even officially responsible for them (although I try to involve them). Many of them quit because there is nothing to do in this game: the political area was the main thing to do and attract new players, but currently the access to it is very limited e.g the Congress.
The death of new citizens is a natural process. I do not deny that, and you shouldn't either. But, I try to keep it limited. Instead of 90/100 dieing, I try to get it to 80 or 70 out of 100 by offering all additional help. Perhaps you can help us in that, by opening up Congress/Politics. You as president and leader of GPN are the key to that, and shouldn't stay out of the discussion because one proposal isn't to your liking: in fact, we have numerous other proposals we want to put a vote on, including ones which you have claimed to be supportive of in the past.
notie, are you lying here? most new citizens I meet in PG have you as their only friend.😁 So who is trying to gain party members here?
yeah i voted no because it's a crappy system. The number of membership says nothing about the votes a party would get in a election. There are a lot of inactive people in the party's. I think the only fair way is to have elections, but how are we going to arrange that? forum voting is a no go for me, so we would have to find a way to have elections in the game.
That's why we need to have the comfirmation of GPN they indeed want a solution to this issue, not GPN vanishing out of the discussion when it gets 'hijacked' by the opposition.
I want a solution. But so far i haven't seen a good one
Well, perhaps we could use more involvement in that specific debate on the forums, because there are other ideas being mentioned as well.
How can anyone take you serious Notie? You have bought the votes on this article, so who tells us that you won't be buying members to your party?
Irrelevant. Please take your responsibility as President in solving one of the bigger problems in our country.
Glad you're ignoring the issue vS, Glad to have a cp that cares about healing the nation.
vS worry about buying votes is at least less damaging than this topics, there biases and far from doing any healing, and hes question on buying people for hes party is about a fair a question as "Will Geuzen Partij Nederland guarantee a functioning, fair and updated Congress before the end of their current Presidential term? Yes/No" Neither is ment to do any good and both are just to disgreded the other
He should do whatever is in the best interest for the country, not just go through the list of empty promises on his cp election articles.
With all do respect, which issue is more important, buy votes or switching IRC channels etc without consent of the general public? I would say the IRC is a much bigger topic. Seeing the government/ friends of the gov is making silly little side issues to distract the real issue here.
If there is a real congress here, I am sure the action of vS would result in a impeachment procedure. Will he be impeached will be base on congress but there would be talks. No one will push for punishment for vote buying in the media. So please STOP CLOUDING THE ISSUE WITH SILLY NITPICKING, and address the issue of the IRC here.
Nitpicking and other distractions only shows that you have no argument and that your position is weak and desperate. You do things not because of the good of the community but you do what you can since there is no congress. If that is the case, you are not democratic and it is thug-like.
No-one was even talking about IRC, and no one really seems to care to deeply about it, most likely since the people active on IRC are only a handful so who cares, well except for you clearly. Isn't even that eNL IRC is really used for anything important. There is a REAL congress you just happen not to like it and impeachments over something as silly as a IRC channel that also happens to have a outdated name now that would be silly and more likely motivated to do so on personal feelings towards the person than on what is done.
This topic is about commitment of current gov to change the current congress even tough there isn't a good plan on how to do it, which makes it seem as being nothing less than motivated by a personal hunger for power rather than doing what would represent the dutch community. And im really starting to dislike you for accusing people of doing things out of self interest and not what is best for the Dutch community, cause you always jump in on hot topics to make it clear how much you dislike Van_Spijck and anyone that agrees with him, rather than providing any realistic solutions.
Just checking, but is buying votes illegal or something?
no.. its Awesome!! lol & if you care about the eNL.. and want to send an important message.. as this article does.. putting your money on the table.. in an effort to save our country.. is a very noble & righteous action.. IMO
Dat het kan, betekend nog niet dat het geen puur bedrog is. Als ik zoveel votes zie denk ik dat veel mensen deze mening delen, en dat is ws ook de bedoeling. Veelzeggend als een speler die iets in de politiek wil voor dit soort misleidende middelen kiest.
First part where you talk "just like real media" maybe like fox news, incredible biases and aimed to gain power even if it means creating division. You could have gone in a much milder way with articles instead you tend to go very aggressive and putting blame or "insults" towards GNP and some of its members.
I do not think you made it very clear what the situation is from your last article cause off above said reasons it didn't give a very accurate picture it, also most support you got where from people well known to have a dislike to GNP as well, only one im unsure where he stands is Daniel Parkerbut he seems neutral on things but Konrad and Odan are very much against GNP.
As for a solution i first would like to see a solution that can possibly be done in a relative fair manner, cause highlighting the fact there has been a massive discussion, yes there has been and perhaps is still ongoing but last time i toke the time to read it none of the proposed plans seems to be any good, fair, or really possible to do.
Only way i see how this can be done in a most fair way, is have 1 person to PM all "active" Dutch CS, which means he needs a small group of people helping him deciding which Dutch CS are active players tru egov4you. Which than means all political parts need to agree on the 1 person to do so, as well on the people that help him in the selection progress. Cause just appointing someone to eitehr place can just lead to that they are biases and deliberately add people who are probable multie accounts so the vote will not be fair, or the main person lei about out come of the votes.
Either way its gone get whines on the end off it and might takes weeks upfront selecting the right people to do this, plus i doubt the few people that can be agreed upon to be neutral and fair enough to do this might not want to do this.
Great plan! I propose MaartenW for this task.
Not sure its a great plan, its the only plan i kinda can come up with so far as to a possible solution that all sides can have a say in, of course the issue with this plan is that all sides can come to a consensus, which might be a assumption to much. I personally honestly have little trust all sides can do this, but that is also why i can't really come up with anything else, cause if they can't agree on such matters i doubt there is ever gone be a consensus on anything that truly matters and there for i don't see any other options or idea's that could have a any future outcome than the confirmation that they cannot which is pointless and would just result in a future loss of trust in the eDutch politics by the ePeople.
it is crazy unp has 9 total members and 3 seats in congress....
and equally as twisted that the GNP has 9 of 20 seats... Its a joke! whats the point of even holding a vote??
I do think we need a congress that represents the people of the Netherlands.. but we are better off without the one, than what we have.. they have had over 6 months.. and this is where it has gotten us...
the proof is in the pudding...
enough said... we have no current congress.. lets work on creating a new one.. Obviously we can't rely on the 'incumbents' to fix the problem.. they have had their chance... and failed miserably!!!
& IMO it should be open to all active Citizens.. not just from the top 5 political parties.. in a small country like ours.. we need to utilize all of our resources!!
and that is exactly what we suggested in congress, but was rejected by GPN
Why complain about something that is part of this game to begin with? The forum was there to help us, not to change the rules of Erep by ourselves! I like that we can replace non active members of congress, but that should be it. Play the game like it was suppose to be!
If we follow the rules of erep we had no congress at all.
I think we do whats best the Netherlands.. period.. why hide behind and erepublik "rule"?? .. that changes all the time anyway.. and like Marnix said.. if you want to follow the "rules"?? to the letter than we don't get the Privilege of having a congress at all.. so im not really sure what your are saying.. or why??? ... and i dont see this as complaining.. We are trying to improve the state of affairs in the Netherlands.. as every Citizen should do.. things are not getting better as is.. they are getting worse! why continue on this same course???
i fully agre with shibitah , play the game as it is intended to be played.
...........even if it means no congress at all.........
Like shibi said , the forum was/is there to help us and not made to change the erep rule system.
So the Bilderberg group can not come to an agreement on this case?
everyone in BG has the right of an own opinion ..........i stated mine , and nomadic his .
I don't see a prob here , we're a democratic group , so we'll go with the majority of BG.
That doesn't mean we don't have personal opinions.
so plse don't try to insinuate that there are problems in our party.
Maybe its wishfull thinking on your side ???? but not the reality and there's no need to try and stir things up.
And with your comment you give the impression that all members of DemNL follow suit and do not think or have opinions of their own .
Are DemNL members just following party politics and policies ????
Btw, vS is aiming for getting us some regions so we can have a new congress, why don't we just wait for that instead of making a fuss over this? Why not get our country united again, focus on that?
Yeah I hope that will succeed, because other ideas won't be as good as an ingame vote. But if we freed ourselves that won't mean we have to face a problem, with no congres elections in months, never again. So then we can just solve that problem now and make a good alternative plan.
You know what I and RikW would support.
We want an ingame vote administered by the CoC, kinda like what we had with the referendum.
This to me just sounds like people whining that they won't get power, which is the main reason for this article I guess. It's also typical in situations where people bend the rules or change rules which is the case here as well; No in game congress means no congres. But no, we here in eNL did what we do best; change things and for every law create an exception. Just like real life politics. And this is what you get; A divided nation on all fronts. If we just followed the game we would note even have this kind of discussion and simply strive for what we should. plus we would only, or at least more, only have people that really live in eNL and work for eNL, in stead of living somewhere else but commenting on everything on forum and ingame. Although I have to admit that last point isn't so much the case anymore.
[removed]