The Bone of Contention
Releasethe Krakken
To help foreign language speakers I will reveal the meaning of this term.
A bone of contention is any issue or thought that triggers some type of difference of opinion between two parties, usually to the point that both parties experience some degree of animosity toward one another. Until the two parties are able to come to some sort of resolution to the conflict that is causing tension, that issue will remain something that creates a barrier in communication, and may even spill over into other matters that were once considered innocuous. Only after the two parties resolve the issue to their mutual satisfaction, either by eliminating the problem or at least deciding that it is all right to simply agree to disagree, will the matter cease to be a bone of contention that undermines the relationship.
The exact origin of the idiomatic expression bone of contention is debated among linguists and others who are interested in idioms and various types of colloquial expressions. One popular school of thought holds that the phrase is representative of what happens when one dog attempts to take away a bone that is currently in the possession of another canine. Typically, the result is a heated exchange between the two animals that can escalate into a fight
Now many times we have seen a plea for unity but unity amongst other people not members of the clerics and the rest of Ireland. Its clear the reason. The one group say "NO" to disclosure of financial reports the other group say Yes show us your finances.
As described neither party wants to let go of the "bone". As described this has led to animosity. Due to frustration allowed to linger and build up and up especially among vik who has been asking for information for about 5 years and was never ever given the opportunity to peruse even one report other than the one or 2 reports that was published.
Its a wound that does not heal. In our language we would call it a "wig" or wedge between parties. The parties will never reach or work together as long as the wedge exist.
Now for about 54 out of 60 past month the NO's has won not by popular vote but by agents in the MOF department who embraced and promoted this sickness.
For you know people non information is a sickness especailly financial information. In normal business its hidden because of the taxman most often.
But its hidden also from workers. So a worker will want to see whether a client paid and cant and must get this from the accounting officer. In fact in successful business this is an absolute No No. Information must be available on command so that people can immediately act upon it. A rather old term most businesses have a direct transaction system meaning if a payment /item is sold its immediately updated on the system.
This my friends is the norm.
In government every country has a full financial report and budget.
Debate is useless. But lets accommodate the foolish as they say.
Information can be found indirectly and easily by:
1. On MM market tracking all info over a couple of weeks total in orgs can easily be deduced.
2. MPP how much is our basic income
3. State army : how much additional income we have if he ask enough questions and is trusted enough to reach top structure.
4. Department of Finance: Getting a deputy spot is easy . Player can be deputy for a long time and eventually gain enough trust to be MOF and then steal thw whole treasury with no elections won by him.
5. Taxes earned is published daily. multiplied by 30 a monthly average can be deduced.
6. The treasury itself will tell you how much money country is willing to ignore also good sign of a juicy duck.
Ultimately CP is not the easiest way and given that most money will be kept in
the hands and account of MOF what is the position a clever man will seek.
MOF or CP.
CP is the short con and Mof is the long con. Mof will take time and effort to build up enough trust Cp as well but as elected official he may even sneak in untrusted or unproven.
CP
Easy to get information without referring to full financials. To be honest "non disclosure" will allow you to skim during your terms easily far more than if you were faced with fact checkers and economics students calculating balances and expenditures.
Classic case of Bernie Madow. Ireland is Madow investments without the full disclosures he cooked up but still was forced to hand in. An math doctorate saw his figures and said but Madow this is impossible. I have checked all the markets its impossible to produce a consistent return on investments such as you do. And more and more people started listening to this math wiz and asking themselves but how/ And Madow saw his ass after a while because there is a policy full financial reporting in the USA. In fact Madow became so arrogant he didnt even attempt investing the millions he got into some kind of investments.
No ALL OF BERNIE MADOWS' investments was paid and this might ring a bell to you now in his own personal accounts.
We have no disclosure policy . This means thief's can still thief but there is only 1 man that is supposed to check up on him but probably wont really as he has all that other tasks as well.
Whereas with full disclosure thief will have exactly the same info he could get BUT now there is a nation checking up on him.
Have you seen many thieves in your life wandering the streets and stealing in public places with a lot of witnesses around. A good criminal wants darkness and a way to hide his activities with as little as possible witnesses.
MOF
Once trusted enough the MOF can literally for years skim his account fat.
Unabated.
Under no circumstance do one needs full financials. In all cases the requirements with and without financials remains the same. Therefore logically if a thing can be done with or without a requirement present one cannot claim the requirement is absolutely needed to do the thing . One cannot claim the action is more likely with or without the requirement without statistics and facts backing your assumptions. Did more CP thefts occur with or without full financials was every thief looking for a country publishing full financials will every thief necessary worry to steal every last cent. And lastly do thieves look for open or closed finances. My understanding of criminals is that they dont want public facts to dodge. Hidden facts is easier. Also and most importantly is every thief known of? How many of our previous CP stole money while in office. How many players checked up on them : Only 1.
We have a classic blunderbuss argument where the arguments pro and con just is too wide to definitely say anything well unless your stubborn or stupid.
So one needs to check pros . What is pro of full financials:
1. More eyes on the figures means more effort in checking up on individuals.
2. Better decision making.
3. Good finances and income generation coupled with high donations will more likely lead to a higher assessment of military prowess or ability.
4. less in-fighting
5. other issues can be worked on such as military. Yes my friends by keeping the spotlight on finances an incompetent MOD can keep on doing nothing indefinitely.
6. More feedback from the people
PROS: Non Disclosure
1. ??? i really cant think of one. There might be some lazy thief that might want the information to steal our treasury and is too lazy to check on the monetary market.
2. there might be some lazy foreign MOD too lazy to check up on our weekly damage that check how much weapons we have because if they have 5000 weps a month their a push over.
3. ? in fact shoot and we will shoot you down.
Comments
Yes, because UK's disclosure of their treasury amounts has worked so well for them... (or the rest of the listed countries who's treasury been emptied in the last two years).
Here are your pros of non-disclosure you blatantly ignored;
1) PTOs are in season, finance reports are dossiers for targets.
2) Ambiguity of our finances is a military advantage.
3) Expenditure reporting is a valid request, but total amounts only offers transparency for the sake of it.
4) Asking for a fully-vetted finance report is unverifiable. Only the MoF has access to all orgs, so if you do not trust the MoF, reporting our finance is a wasted activity. (Unless org access is given to CP i.e. massive security risk).
This debate is fruitless. The benefits of secrecy are observed by the executive, and seem to exclude everyone else from privileged information - information only useful to planners. Our officials are elected with that trust in mind. If that trust no longer extends to our MoFs from the community, we have a greater problem than RTK's attention seeking(/butthurt he can't be trusted with sensitive information) and that needs addressing.
Our finances are good. We can afford wars and, in future, likely more expensive schemes - that's basically been the message from every CP who's had access to treasury amounts. Putting a number on it doesn't contextualize it any further than that, and only denies the community a graph to look at.
1. as stated PTO's dont need financials.
2. ?lol thats just plain stupid argument how can you be disambiguate if erep and countless tools keep track of our damage?
3? that a non sequitur is that the right word anyway thats a circle argument
4.the mof publishing full financials is not a trust issue thats a snowman(lol strawman) fallacy.
Trust has nothing to do with full financials in fact bernie madow published financials and was untrusworthy you claim appleman was trustworthy yet without financials its impossible to verify.
Countless trusted entities publish full financials and countless governments that is trusted also do the financials reinforce the trust the people put in them or supporters anyway and yet give the detractors the opportunity to point to problems.
Ok I am going to sum up something what you are saying and give one repsonse
: finances, blah blah we are so strong, message from every cp, putting a number on it doesnt contextualize it any further only denies the community a graph: it denies community peace of mind, it denies media /people oppurtunity to identify problems and suggest solutions, it keeps the community in the dark -
benefits of secrecy, exclude everyone, information only useful to planners. (strawman fallacy) our officials are elected with that trust in mind(assigning your own interpretations is if it where fact), trust no longer extends to our mofs- again it is not really a trust thing i suggest you buy a book they would probably call ethics in accounting, it will deal with why public companies publish full financials each year, why governments do, why many professionals is required to audit their books, what is legal illegal ethical unethical. why one account? then you will need to drift from that and take in some politics 101/201 etc where they outline why governments report financials , the fiduciary role of the government to the people and the powers and boundaries of officials.
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basically either your uneducated /is ignoring what you have been learned/is not educated in this field or my guess is just making up arguments in order to derail an issue. Now Seanan after I have easily deflated all of your arguments/why are you campaigning so hard to keep everything secret. Clearly you have never been Mof clearly any theft would not fall bac on you in your inactive term earlier this year.
Yet buzz buzz little fly trying to fall into the cake that is transparency. The problem is with people like you is you latch onto arguments. Bhane said the stuff about the military seanan latches onto it. clearly when your arguments can in one sentence be taken to another room and put out of their mercy it seems your just not a good objective thinker. I am not here to teach you anything but clearly if your educated try and raise the level of your arguments. Damnit Im tired of kicking em to the curb.
You are backwards, Krakky. Your inexperience shines up like a beacon of brown smelly light.
1) PTO don't need financials?... No, because that would be a silly accusation. I clearly said that finance reports are dossiers.
"dossier
- a collection of documents about a particular person, event, or subject. "
PTO groups target weakness for personal/group/foreign national gain. A sizable number of Serbian PTOers are leaving the UK because the treasury is lacking and UK's international role is hardly worth hindering.
I said finance reports are dossiers. When a PTO group is selecting target, they go for transparent and naive communities with something of worth. We are not transparent and we are not naive.
A PTO group will not put months of effort into infiltrating a country for pennies. They will definitely not for an unknown amount. They will if our reports give them a motivation.
dossier is a file in a criminal case you numpty. still they dont can only access the orgs that is publicly available so what is your point indeed if you have any.
yet again where are your proxy did you take time of to study pto groups how can you make such statements.still and to repeat ad infinitum they do not need to see the financial report they can just track the monetary market and publicly accessible orgs.
so where is this pto groups it sounds more like a xenophobic and racist attack on Serbian peoples.
still totals they can steal is publicly accessible
you brought no valid arguments just strange tales of supposed ganags of PTO'ers who is serbian and will take over our country for our monies.
But your argument fail at the door as it clearly states i know they do this that means you know who these players are right and therefore could . take several counter measures. our location also would mean we could draw counter allies in to stop this. but lastly and most importantly and something you will never admit they do not need full financials. and s lets be honest you bunch is so corrupt they would probably join you and become trusted and much respected orc members i mean if your considered cp/mod material do it not say we have no standard. does young cp's not scream PTO us louder than the publicly available info.
2) Again, inexperienced.
Funnily enough, eRep and others tool do not analyze our reserves and predict the amount of mercenaries/tanks we can buy and how much damage we can bring to the table.
Any experienced finance guru or military leader worth their salt can analyze reserves to know their potential for obtaining damage. Our wars with the UK have given examples of when they give up, because they believe we can out-bid them. Whether or not that is true, full finance reports remove the uncertainly and allow tacticians to plan attacks against us.
/facepalm
3) Expenditure says what we pay out on certain activities, it does not say how long we can fund those or how much reserves we have hidden away for a rainy day.
Circular argument? Expenditure and full totals are not the same. The first is doable without the latter.
4) MoF publishing financial reports is ABSOLUTELY a trust issue.
I will now publish you a full financial report, Krakky:
Ireland currently has 1 IEP.
The MoF could lie about the totals. And I'd back that for reasons I've said about unnecessary transparency. But if you don't trust the MoF's integrity to look after our reserves and demand a report detailing every cent, why would you believe his report is accurate? That make you an idiot or a politician.
We have a total in mind so he can shoot the total we will analyse it. That is our right as only full time citizens of ireland. do not run stuff ahead. mof report and then discussions and analyze afterwards. Do you think we are stupid he will have to move it to a org and I will screenshot it. Else yes I will consider anything he say a lie.
unfortunately your no authority here seanan. in fact your so useless a politician why did they send you to debate me i feel insulted. Do you orcs really think so little of me that you send seanan to debate me.
Who are you even writing this for?
The MoF has the
complete faith of ILP
full support of LP
major support from EA
IFP/IV haven't batted a lash
he's from LH ffs
Who do you expect to turn against him?
10,000 of these articles isn't going to change anything.
And the proxies that allow you to speak for these people that you quote.
And what does turning against him mean? I do no understand we are not asking that he publicly be executed we are asking him to type some character on his keyboards with lots of numbers and in subject Full Financial Report September 2014
You don't understand Sweet.....either you and your orcs repent and change it or you lose everything...
Unlike me KRakken still have faith in you and he is only trying to save you from The Silence that will start a havoc after i left this game.
For how long you know me Sweet?
Do you really believe i will quit without doing something drastic to stop the evil?
I mentioned a bone vik and that made sweet think about 3 years back after he wrote his gold fishing article he was guru and wanted to celebrate with his wife but unfortunately his son who is naught hid away his pump
cycle pump
"A good criminal wants darkness and a way to hide his activities with as little as possible witnesses."
Do not be fooled Ireland...those few of you who still have irish honor....corruption never comes in small numbers...