Dignity Brigade | Retirement home for the confused
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by OKayOK
I have a Facebook profile that I keep private to everyone besides my friends. It has nothing to do with eRepublik, and it has nothing to do with any group within the game.
There is a group with in this game that say that they put Dignity first. They say that if you play the game in a way that is not dignified, then it is not in line with their beliefs.
In Real Life I am a Christian. I attended a church that claimed to be Christian, and turned out to be a cult. The perspective leant from that experience turned me into the type of Christian that most of you would not recognised. I swear (no biblical command on that) , I have tattoos (biblically all things are permissible if to the glory of God), and I do NOT accept proud, better that thou Christianity.
I am ProLife but I do not hate ProChoice people.
I am anti gay marriage in a church, but am not anti a non-church marriage.
I believe the universe was created.
I have also no interest in discussing or debating my beliefs on a game.
I think that our RL beliefs should not EVER have a bearing on the game we play, and in-fact I think that it would not be very dignified for a player to take a Facebook post and ridicule a player behind his back on a forum he never visits. I could care less if the people I play with are Muslim, Hindu, Atheist or Satanist. I will treat your real life beliefs (if they come into play gamewise) with dignity and respect. That is the dignified thing to do.
Then I see this: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Dignity_Brigade/topic/4651617/1/
Now, if the group that posted this is so hung up on Dignity, then I would request that you respect my privacy and respect my beliefs. This you have not done!
Dignity Brigade has obviously lost its relevance and it has obviously lost its focus.
This is a sad day for me as I had a LOT of respect for Jizzie, and I now regret that I ever accepted him as a friend on Facebook.
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Could not agree more, and i cant even see the link - it doesnt matter. Like me or not for my in- game actions.
Amen. After the umpteenth time I asked for respect and I was just chased away I gave up. It's disgusting to see how I respect others' beliefs but they do not return the favor. Kudos for making this public, Mark.
Screenshot: http://i42.tinypic.com/2s10vw6.png
This is why I believe that we should avoid discussing religion and IRL politics within gaming communities. Why? because some of us like to troll and to flame. Meanwhile people with real feelings get offended. I'm with Mark on this one.
Guys and girls please respect each other.
Get over yourselves.
We had a discussion on our social forum(not the Erep section)about stuff Mark said on his FB page.
It has nothing to do with this game.
Yeah, it has to do with mutual respect. But who cares about that? We all like a world where everyone hates each other, right?
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People who have tried to use my Facebook profile against me:
Hollysglad
Chris Mcabe
Channers
And now Dignity Brigade
Welcome to their family.
It's not spam. It's prominent eRepublik players in a prominent eRepublik organization. It's not spam, it's a scandal.
Ha ha. Way to blow this out of proportion Mark.
Nothing to do with this game, our discussion wasn't "used" for anything against you.
If it has nothing to do with the game, then how did my name even come up? The people on the DB forum, do they not play the game? Is there not a DB section on the official eSA forums? Yes, there is a section. Is there not a DB MU? Yes there is.
Stop Bullshitting me. This is not spam, and the forum post has everything to do with the game, if it did not, then my name would have never been mentioned
Ok, Mark. By the same logic your FB page is relevant to this game.
The DB forum is not specific to this game. We have a Erepublik board though.
I hardly ever talk about eRepublik on my FB. I speak about Real Life. It is my Real FB, and not one created for my game player. It is not public, and it is only available to friends. Jizzie (Jason Bell) was a friend and I trusted that he would not mis-use my personal comments or data.
We did not discuss Erepublik either. We discussed RL issues.
You're the one who brought all this to the game.
Maybe take it to PMs? [Just a suggestion]
discussion is a mockery but it is for this reason I don't discuss my beliefs but image of jizzie not good at the moment.
Keep on justifying your invasion of my privacy, personal insults and total lack of respect. Bringing it into the game is relevant because you advertise Dignity as being Key to you organisation/group. Behind doors however, you are the opposite. I think that if you operate in this game, then people in this game should know who you are.
You can however keep arguing about which section of the forum it was posted on. How my personal FB is apparently relevant to you etc...... I suspect that it would just make you look stupid.
The only insult, and I apologize for it, was the title of the thread. The rest was just asking what others thought about biblical Christianity and my thoughts on it. None of it was insulting in any way. That's where the discussion about you stopped. The rest of the thread had nothing to do with Christianity or you.
If you don't want people discussing your comments on a public forum like Facebook, then don't bring them up. I purposely avoid any discussion of religion on FB because I don't want to offend or get into arguments with my friends and family there, the majority of whom are Christians. I would comment on your page, but this article and Martin's comments are the exact reasons why I don't - you'll take criticism of your religion personally and will ignore our legitimate questions and comments.
That being said, our forum is private and the majority of our members are not even eRep players. Sure we have an eR section for those who still play, but we also have a Supremacy section, a World of tanks section, etc. Why were you even there snooping around in the first place? If you have a problem with our comments, address them there. Like Martin, you won't or can't do it. Instead, you'd rather attack individuals publicly who didn't do the same to you. My comments were said in a private forum to like-minded individuals, not here in an article or on a FB page for all to see.
We are not the ones discussing RL issues in eRep, but you are. If you are not into discussing your beliefs in a game, then why are you doing it? You are welcome to do so on our forum as long as you don't start out insulting and misrepresenting what we said, as Martin did.
Mark, far from everything you do is connected to Erep. You say that.
Why is it so hard for you to understand that people discuss other things than Erep on our forum?
I maintain that this article is spam because of its irrelevance to the game.
We did not invade your privacy in the slightest. We discussed an opinion of yours.
Did any of you actually read the entire thread?
They probably didn't, but why should that stop any of the DB and Jizzie haters from believing this BS anyway. Those threads have been up for months on our forum and not one of the Christians in the DB found it offensive because it clearly wasn't insulting to them.
I have no problem with Mark and I respect him in many ways. I just don't care for some of his beliefs as he doesn't care for many of mine I am sure. I would gladly discuss this on our forum or privately, but apparently he'd rather drum up sympathy for himself and animosity towards the DB by slandering us and making our private discussions public.
If what we said is so offensive, why don't you just quote what we said?
Believe it or not, I did try respond their Jizzie but it failed. I will post the response I had in mind below. The thing that you seem to miss is this. I am a Christian, who works in Ministry and I have a Private FB. It is not for all to see. It is for like-minded people. Me and you might not share a religious belief but we are like minded insomuch that we both play eRep. I also play WoT but I am stuck on the Crappy Lee
Being a Christian in Ministry, my discussions will be God centred. I will be talking to the majority on my FB who are Christian. The others who are not do not seem to mind. I also talk about general things and we seem to chat about those things just fine.
If you are NOT A FRIEND on my FB you will see no posts as they all hidden. My FB is not public, and it is not for public discussion. You could take picture of my children off my FB seeing that you are a froiend and puclish them on the internet. How is that different?
What you did was fucked up, simple as that
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The Response for the Forum
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Jizzie! I have been playing this game for a long time now, and all that time I had a lot of respect for you as a player. That was until I came across this bullshit!
My facebook profile is mine and it has fuckall to do with ER and it has fuckall to do with DB. You took private stuff off my wall, and riduculed me behind my back. That is the lowest thing that I could imagine. You obiously feel that if I am a Christian, I must be like all the other pricks out there who claim the same. You obviously do not know that I spend a considerable aamount of time telling the church that it is fucked up! You could have not known because you are speaking behind my back and not offering me the chance to defend myself.
I am NOT your average Christian and I am the type of Christian that has absolutly NO PROBLEM telling you to GO FUCK YOURSELF.
I don't see the relevance of this whole tantrum to erep.
Of course you don't. It is obvious which side of the fence you will be on Krimp. The thing is that DB from the eRep perspective is a part of eSA. It has been for a long time. The people who are commenting on the forum post are all eRep players and part of eSA present and past.
I will not start considering what other games people play. I could not give a shit about if DB is actually a eRep thing or not. From my view it is, and from the context of that post it is. This article is relevant
If you want to defend yourself, I'd be happy to see you do it. You clearly didn't read the forum posts, as it had nothing to do with you personally. Only the title and first post mentioned you, and even there it wasn't a personal thing. As I said before, I only brought up your point about biblical Christianity being the way to go and my thoughts on it. I am sorry for the 'nutter' comment, but I'd like to see where else there was a personal attack or insult against you. I never cursed you or told you to fuck yourself as you have no problem doing to me. Please tell me where I did something that was fucked up other than disagreeing with something you said on FB.
There is also a huge difference between what I did on our private forum that a very limited number can see and posting personal pics on the internet. I didn't attack you personally, only questioned and commented on what you said, and I wasn't the only DBer who has seen your FB posts. A few have unfriended you because of some of your more inflammatory posts and images, but I never did and will not. I would never disrespect you publicly and I do not think I disrespected you privately exceot for the unfortunate 'nutter' comment.
Your response is much like Martin's comments in that you did not address what I actually said or how it was disrespectful. You put words in my mouth that I never expressed and attributed opinions that I supposedly have about you that are completely false. You do say some things that remind me of the pricks who say the same, but I do know about and respect you telling the church it is fucked up. You have always had access to the forum and the threads in question, so if you ever bothered coming over you would have had ample chances to defend your faith.
eRepublik is the centerpiece to all our relationships and thus everything that happens in our lives which have to do with each other are products of eRepublik.
I don't understand the essays. All I did, personally, was ask for respect. After I was told that there will not be any respect given and that all your fucks have been given for other causes, you are now bringing the respect issue into the spotlight.
Speak for yourself. I met many of the DBers long before we joined eR, while most of the newer members don't even know what eR is. If you're going to make a comment like that, at least educate yourself on what we are, as you clearly have no idea.
Why should we just automatically give you respect when you come on our forum anonymously, without an invitation, and then proceed to insult us and misrepresent what we said? I asked you to tell us exactly what you found offensive, but you refused to do so. We gave you multiple opportunities to tell us where we were wrong and insulting and where we attacked Mark, but again, you would not do so, but instead continued to tell us what assholes we are and that you deserved respect. You don't get respect just by asking for it, you earn it.
We have Christians in the DB like Dreadnuts who did not find anything we said offensive and has no problem telling us when we are full of crap and will explain why. We all have much respect for DTM because he has earned it. I don't necessarily agree with his beliefs and he does not agree with mine, but that doesn't mean I don't respect him as a person. He doesn't go around trumpeting his faith either, but if he did and I criticized him for it, he wouldn't get all offended and attack me publicly.
Firstly, I was offended by you saying that Jesus and you are going to smoke weed or something together. Then your grim little friends came in supporting it and adding other things which would be disrespectful to anyone with my faith. You commented something about Jesus supporting the right to bear arms. Then you called my faith a fairy tale and called God an imaginary friend.
How the hell do you not think that is not offensive? I also don't give a shit about not being invited to your little party van. Like Rico said, the door was unlocked. If you want to have this types of EXTREMELY sensitive discussions, do it behind doors which are locked and in rooms which are sound proof.
And there you go again. Now I am being accused of "trumpeting" my faith when I merely told you that the grim jokes you made about my faith are disgusting and that you should show some respect for other humans who do not share what you believe in. Besides, I never did anything to "lose" your respect, except if you never had respect for me in the first place. I am not one who goes around calling Atheists bullshitters or heathens. I support the right to believe in whatever the hell you want. Yet, I do not get that in return.
If I were to say I don't support LGBT rights, you and half the world would flame me, insult me, the list goes on. You'd think it's justifiable. But I ask you to *please* show some form of decency and RESPECT the fact that I believe in Christ, it's not justifiable?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4VbOHvaPRc
You posted a picture of Jesus shooting up on your FB page. I've seen it elsewhere and found it funny. Who cares what I say about Jesus? That has nothing to do with you. You saying I don't have a right to joke about smoking weed with Christ, but you can post a shot of him shooting heroin? Besides that, do you get offended when people joke about Muhammed or Buddha? If your faith was strong, you wouldn't care what anyone said about Jesus. In my country, it is the Christians who strongly support the right to bear arms and saying Jesus would is far from an insult. And again, why do you care if I think Christianity is a fairy tale and god is imaginary? That says more about your faith than me. I asked you to explain to me how that statement was wrong, but again, you wouldn't or couldn't.
We do whatever we want in our forum and people are free to come in and check it out. My point was about respect and you saying you deserved it even though you initially posted anonymously, then took what we said out of context, and then called us assholes. I don't care if you were invited or not, but don't expect to get respect when you come in attacking people anonymously when no one was even talking about you in the first place. And again I ask, how is this offensive? You ask me to say out it is not offensive, but you can't prove a negative. I don't think it was at all so tell me how it was.
Where did I say you were trumpeting your faith? Why do you think everything is about you? I was talking about DTM. Are you even reading what we are saying or are you just having trouble understanding? I wasn't showing disrespect for "other humans" but that doesn't mean I have to be respectful of others' beliefs, just as they don't have to have respect for mine. Where did I say I lost respect for you? You are the only one so obsessed with respect. I don't go around calling Christians names and you may not call atheists bsers or heathens, but you did call us assholes.
And what do LGBT rights have to do with anything? just another example of you putting words in my mouth and misrepresenting atheists. That's disrespectful right there, not to mention that you think that a segment of the population doesn't deserve rights. How is that worthy of respect? How is that decent? Christ never said anything about gays anyway, so what does that have to do with what I think about your belief in Jesus. I don't care that you believe in Jesus and you shouldn't either.
Why do you need someone to respect your belief so very badly? Most other Christians don't care if I respect their belief or not. Do you need everyone to respect your belief and not criticize any aspect of it because you need us to help you justify it? Is your faith really that weak?
And Mark, if you want your FB account to be truly private as you claim it is, then maybe you should set it to private for only friends to see. I can still see your whole page despite you unfriending me. It's unfortunate that you have seen fit to end our friendship over a misunderstanding, but that is completely up to you.
For that reason i do not debate spirituality, to some it is something unquestionable, and if something that is dear to you are disscussed by those to whom it is not as sacred, it might be shocking or dissappointing, but this is also real life, one persons dream is another's soap bubbles, there to poke and burst to see what it is about, while others want to protect the bubble for its perfection.
To be fair that single post is the only post where Mark or his views are mentioned, and it could not be even called serious dicussion, the very next post moved the thread into aliens, and should give a bit perspective on how seriously it was (should be) taken.
I am a real life Catholic. As is my family. I have strong religious faith.
That said, i thought that thread was insanely funny. I think we all need to chill. People shouldn't have serious conversations/debates about religion for these above reasons.
Uh, I just pointed the offensive part out... uh... read up, I guess? I don't remember the Bible ever saying that the Trinity supported the Second Amendment. I couldn't care less what the conservatives in your country believe. Christianity is not an American thing. It's a global thing, and just because some people misrepresent it doesn't give you the right to disrespect it. Obviously I wouldn't have found it offensive to see you joke about another religion, but I wouldn't have participated. I have no obligation to defend someone else's religion and I ask of you to respect ME and MINE. I -WANT- your respect.
I brought LGBT it to use as an example of you thinking it's fine to insult religion and just carelessly go forth but when someone insults LGBT it's an issue. I wasn't making a discussion about it.
I didn't call you an asshole because you were an Atheist, I called you an asshole because you were poking fun at my religion. My sense of being. My principles in life. You insulted me directly for NO reason and I asked you to quit it and respect me. I don't even know why this is a debatable subject. People should have morals regardless of their religion and thus should have respect for others. I didn't blow up a building in your country. I never said make Christianity the state religion. I did nothing to not earn your respect. You -know- you are wrong. I am not even asking for an apology. I am asking for your respect
I agree Tenshibo, but people should also not go around making grim jokes about others' religion. It's inhumane and disrespectful.
I'd disagree on that. Jokes are harmless, especially in the context it was in.
So you don't mind jokes about 9/11 or the tsunamis? You don't mind jokes which imply the Holocaust was funny? Jokes about African poverty? Freedom of speech is guaranteed, but then your own ethical code comes into the situation. Jokes CAN be offensive and insulting and once that happens the jokes need to cease.
The problem is, Martin, that you never did point out the offensive part. Who said the Trinity supported the 2nd Amendment? The gun lobby in the US is almost entirely Christian and that is the hypocrisy we were pointing out. What does that have to do with you? We know not all Christians believe that way. The Bible also condones slavery and all kinds of violence and genocide, but I know that almost all Christians don't believe in that stuff either. An insult or criticism of Christian doctrine has nothing to do with you no matter how pious you think you are.
Why do you WANT our respect or even need it? That's really sad and pathetic, and is very telling regarding what this was all about. It had nothing to do with Mark - it had everything to do with you and your fragile faith and feelings, Mark was only brought in so you would have some support and justification.
To say I insulted you directly is laughable. I can honestly say I haven't thought about you at all until you started spamming our forum. And for once you are exactly right, you did nothing to earn our respect. Tenshibo and DTM did, however. They are Christians who can actually see the difference between criticizing a person and a doctrine, and they also have a sense of humor about themselves, which is a prerequisite to be DB, and which is why you weren't accepted way back when you applied.
You were clearly on our forum snooping around for something to attack us for because you were not accepted, and when you couldn't find anything, you made a big issue out of something you took completely out of context. We don't care about what you believe but respect has to be earned. You threw away any chance of that by lying about us and trying to make a scandal out of stupid jokes. This isn't about Mark or Christianity, this is about you. Get over yourself. Jesus and God, if they are all-powerful, do not need you to defend them. If they are who you believe they are, they can easily take care of us
Besides, jokes are only the first step. Next, you have protests and uprisings against Christianity. Then you have laws banning churches. Then you have laws banning religion altogether. It has happened and can happen again.
This isn't a war on Christianity, this is a war on stupidity.
And in regards to do mind jokes about 9/11? Not at all.i make them all the time. Jokes don't matter, they're meaningless. Beliefs matter.
If jizzie believed mark was dumb for bein Christian, this would be a different case. However, not only did he not say that, nobody made fun of him.
There we go. I knew this would happen even after I said at that time that I didn't apply for the Dignity Brigade. I attempted to register on your forum. Since you accepted that as an automatic application to join the DB, I should rather never try to register on any US tourism forum, otherwise they might think I am trying to gain citizenship.
You know what, yeah, I think I'm done here. Silly me, thinking that respect for one another was a supposed to be a given in all neutral human relationships. What was I thinking? What a retard am I to advocate for solidarity and an understanding between human beings? You're right, it's fun for everyone to hate each other and it really develops society. What would the world be without people all being able to get along? What a boring place. I mean, we want Jihads, hate crimes and all that jazz. We don't want everyone respecting each other and not trying to piss each other off. You know, you're right. I might just follow your example and start by burning a Quran tomorrow publicly and maybe even making a cake in the form of the burning World Trade Center, and sending it to the White House for Barrack Obama's birthday. That's how you want it, right? Why? Because it's fucking funny.
Indeed. Ban humour and satire. It will inevitably lead to criminalization of the subject.
What is it you do for fun Martin? What kind of movies do you like? What do you read?
Come on people. What's this ranting about RL and respect this and disrespect that?
This is a fricking game!!
A game of trade, politics, foul play and war.
There is no game module dealing with religion. There are no churches or other buildings of worship in the market place, No religious communities.
Outside the game there are the forums connected with the game. There we discuss eRep issues.
There are also separate forums created by people playing the game also including people not playing eRep, having discussions about mainly RL stuff.
The day I can't keep the game from RL I promise I will leave eREp
So, chill out and keep the perspective.
@martin no that's genuine hateful.
But, saying that 9/11 was a sad day because 6 Muslims died in that plane crash can be funny.
See the difference?
Ok, so no-one ever insulted me for being a Christian. You seem to think my wife is a nurse (Where the hell did you get that from). You insuuate that she would make a crap nurse because she is more than likely a creationist. You think we will cure leprosy by sacrificing two birds. You say the Following:
Wow, this guy wastes a lot of brain power on nonsense
I used to respect this guy, but now I just think he is moron
How do you deny the insults?
Wtf has this got to do with eRep? Enough already...this is a flame war, not a discussion.
It's something said on an external forum about a comment on Facebook. No relevance whatsoever to eRep.
@Rico. I am not your holier than thou Christian who thinks PacMan is a Satanic game or that a movie with swearing in is wrong. I watch normal movies, I play normal games, I read normal things. Hell, I'll even watch a movie which insults my religion. Why? Because I know it is fiction, and that nothing done in the movie is meant to be taken seriously. The difference here is that you are voicing what you /actually/ think about us Christians. You are not making fun of my religion in fiction - you are actually making fun of it.
You can enjoy your Atheistic humor by all means if you do it behind closed doors. Don't mention your forum is private because I can see everything that is going on there. Block unregistered users from seeing it and don't discuss it in public. Is that really such a difficult thing to master?
Martin, that forum is private, I don't have access to it.
It was only made private tonight