What's wrong with Phoenix? (No, it's not the lack of credit cards)
mihail.cazacu
Let's address the credit cards issue first:
Where was the alleged credit card superiority when Brazil and France carved out half of Spain for themselves? That should put the myth of the credit cards to rest forever. (And the myth of the fake Polish gold as well)
What is actually wrong with Phoenix are the key members.
PEACE (the former incarnation of Phoenix) was doing well when the brains and muscle behind it were the Indonesians. Yes, a lot of that muscle was bot-farmed (and the long list of key Indonesian players banned proves it). However it's the brains which matter more than the muscle.
The Indonesians had no Real Life ax to grind. There were no "historical injustices to be redressed". Therefore there was nothing to clutter their judgment and distort their priorities.
The Indonesians had no problems triggering the American MPPs. They were the most powerful member of PEACE and they knew great power comes with great responsibility. Just like in Real Life. Yes, that meant they risked their empire in the process. But an empire is built by conquest. Somebody needs to conquer those juicy rich provinces first. Which means somebody has to plow head-on through a stack of MPPs.
The Indonesians also knew one cannot rely on others to do the tough jobs.
At the time of the North American invasion the Russians were still a bunch of weaklings whose battles had to be fought by the rest of the alliance. The Russian players were understrength and under-ranked and their bots were even weaker (bots don't live long lives anyway). So if the North American campaign was to be won, Indonesia and Hungary had both to go head-on against the Americans.
Let me explain why there's a huge difference between fighting wars directly and by proxy. Trying to win the North American campaign via the Russian MPPs was strategically flawed.
Those MPPs were neutralized by EDEN opening RWs inside the Hungarian and Indonesian empires and/or by launching diversionary attacks like the July 2009 Romanian expedition in Podolia. A few well-chosen RWs or diversionary attacks would always be enough to divert the main MPPs away, leaving a weak country alone against the whole might of EDEN. Neither Russia nor France had any chance.
The downfall of PEACE (and Phoenix)
The problem of PEACE was the Admins started to mercilessly kill the Indonesian bots (and the bot masters - including the Indonesian president of that time) exactly when the Hungarians, the Serbs and the Russians were becoming the new rising stars of the alliance.
All the 3 countries had their baby-booms anchored in "historical injustices". All those alleged "historical injustices" (the dismantling of the Austria-Hungary at the end of WW1, the dismantling of Yugoslavia in the early '90s and the dismantling of the Soviet Union in 1991) had been well deserved RL punishments for RL crimes. People who join the game to "make right" such "wrongs" are fundamentally no different in their mind set than the Neo-Nazis, Klu Klux Klan, Arkan's Tigers or Al Qaeda.
Of course not every Hungarian, Serb or Russian joined the game to avenge Trianon, the loss of Slavonia or the dismantling of the Soviet Union respectively. But the majority of them did, as it is proven by what provinces got invaded by the presidents who repeatedly won the elections in those eCountries and about what articles got most of the votes in their respective media.
No wonder therefore such leaders would be impervious to strategy. When the Hungarian MoD Kampec or the Serbian MoD Desert Hamster told their allies to forget about Hungarian/Serbian help they really meant it. Hungary had collected 10k gold to "liberate" the strategically worthless Transylvania, not to defend Slovenia. Serbia's gold was also destined to cling onto the worthless remains of Serbia's Asian Empire, not to help their allies.
Seeking in-game compensation for the delusional RL "wrongs" is also the reason why the Serbian and Hungarian empires were land-swap empires, unlike the Indonesian one (or the American, Polish, Spanish or Romanian empires on EDEN's side).
If one believes he is "wronged" then in his delusional mind he also believes is "entitled" to compensations. The Hungarian and Serbian allies had to hand over rich provinces to those guys without having the right to demand Hungary and Serbia take any risks in return.
At this point in time the Hungarian and Serbian trolls would jump in and say: "Hey, we took the risk of attacking Croatia and Romania, didn't we?". Attacking Croatia and Romania would count as empire-building if their colonies would have been in Croatia or Romania.
The Polish Empire was first built in the rich German provinces, then in the rich Russian provinces. Both Germany and Russia were attacked head-on by Poland. Did Hungary attack Canada, the USA or China head on?
Did Serbia conquer Liaoning from China directly or did they land-swap it from Russia, who in return for this service was left with the whole Chinese set of MPPs stacked against her? Did Serbia try to wipe out China closing the MPPs opened by Russia?
Of course not!
They had already been wronged by the NATO, the Croatian "ustashi", the EU and the whole world in general in the early '90s (we just need take a look at the most recurrent themes of the Serbian trolls, especially in the American media to get an idea about how much they've suffered unjustly). So of course at least they deserved Liaoning risk-free in-game, didn't they?
Just like Hungary "deserved" to be land-swapped to North America, then to Rhone-Alps and finally to Podolia risk-free. Serbia also "deserved" to be land-swapped to Liaoning.
Hungary "deserved" 10k gold from Russia in return for the Urals and some 800 gold for Northern Caucasus. By comparison how much did the Indonesians charge Russia for Western Siberia?!
Hungary "deserved" 3 months free of rent from the PTOed Ukraine for Podolia, "deserved" to collect rent for Gauteng from Brazil and was outraged when the French asked them to share the benefits of "liberating" (via land-swaps, of course) the French original province of Rhone-Alps.
The fact the Americans returned Karnataka to India without asking for any compensations, the fact the Poles returned California free-of-charge to the Americans, the fact the Croats repeatedly returned BiH to the Rela Life Bosnians (not to the Serbian PTOers) or the Romanians did the same with Podolia when the Real Life Ukrainians finally got their country back simply can't fit in the Hungarian framework of values.
And it would never do. Exacting tribute and compensation from their allies is a sign of "true greatness". After all, it's what empires do in Real Life, isn't it? And if that's not possible for the Hungarian players in Real Life it should at least happen in-game.
Is there any future for Phoenix?
Not really, as long as Hungary, Serbia and Russia are part of it.
However there is still hope: in Real Life Brazil, Argentina, Colombia, Mexico,Turkey, Indonesia, Germany, France, Iran and UK are large countries.
For almost 3 years there was no baby-boom in Turkey. Now it finally happened. If the Turks manage to keep their players interested in the game, Turkey would be an in-game Great Power in about 3 months. Argentina, Colombia and Mexico could be tomorrow what Turkey is today.
If the Brazilians manage to get organized and keep their last baby-boom they too would be on par with nowadays Serbia or Hungary.
France managed to keep most of her heavyweights and their ability to act in an organized way has greatly improved during the time they fought for independence. They're haven't reached their potential but they are much closer than during their 2009 baby-boom.
Germany is hopeless because the Germans did such a great job in Real Life to weed-out the nationalism that 100 RL years of in-game Polish occupation won't trigger any baby-boom there. However the overwhelming majority of the the German players are level-headed so a new alliance where decisions are taken solely on strategic considerations might benefit from Germany's presence in the headquarters. Iseutz, the RL German president of India is just one example of the high-caliber players Germany has. Too bad for Phoenix somebody else is calling the shots. And we in EDEN can only be happy that's how the things are.
UK might be another star provided they get rid of the role-playing clowns who dragged UK into PEACE/Phoenix in the first place. The RL Brits also have no ax to grind therefore I am expecting smarter decisions once they get rid of the lulzy gang (luckily Pakistan and Dioism seems to do the long-awaited cleansing for UK).
IMHO a baby-boom would only happen in the UK if the Admins manage to turn the game into a decent alternative to XBOX or PS3. But miracles sometimes do happen: the Americans are the living proof this game can appeal to people who otherwise have access to more spectacular forms of on-line entertainment. Raw power (where the Brits and the Germans are lacking) is less important than brains - EDEN's long list of Scandinavian leaders proves it. This is a strategy game and brainpower trumps firepower.
Therefore I think once that alliance dumps the "historical injustices" ballast there is a future for them too. It quite likely that dumping Serbia, Hungary and Russia now might result in them experiencing the fate of France. However we've got a much better France today than one year before.
That makes the risks worth taking.
Comments
HAIL CROMANIA! HAIL EDEN!
2nd?
EDEN FTW
A really long article ~o~
JUSTICE FOR HUNGARY!FAIL TRIANON
[removed]
good article
még elfoglalni se tudtok akkor milyen brainforce vagy te meg az EDEN-es haverjaid?😃 mert Bogdan L belevágott félmilliót azt hiszed te vagy a kemény? Látszik ez CH-n te pcs
voted
Baga si un articol in bulgaria ca e deranj mare pe acolo de cand sarbii au mpp cu macedonenii : )
tl;dr
Lesz még Bukarest magyar falu🙂
Wellcome back 🙂
"RL crimes"?
heh not giving autonomy to hungarians in ro is crime too isnt?
You've continued where I've started and it's a damn good article to be honest.
troll .... lesz meg bukarest magyar falu.
Hail Eden!
What a great, balanced article.
Amikor idejöttünk a Kárpát medencébe, a románok ellopták a lovainkat🙂 Ennyit ér...
troll .... lesz meg bukarest magyar falu. x 3
Миша, привет)
HAIL HUNGARY!
Írsz egy ekkora kibaszott nagy cikket csak azért hogy a baromságaidat összeszed : ).
A román haverjaid azt is elhinnék ha azt írnád hogy már a görögök elött birodalmatok volt. Mi meg azt se hisszük el neked ha kérdezel.
Ezek után minek koptatod a billentyűzetet?
do you think, you are smart????
Well, not!
Great article
damn good article !! voted : )) HAIL CROMANIA HAIL EDEN : D
HAIL CROMANIA! HAIL EDEN! Great article
o7
very good article
very interesting article
Wow Mihai ... Wall text!
Oricum interesant! (mi'a luat ceva sa citesc tot!🙂 ))
(No, it's not the lack of credit cards)
its the lack of fakes registering day by day
(No, it's not the lack of credit cards)
its the lack of fakes registering day by day x2
Would you give it a rest kozákmisi?... It's been a long time since anyone brought IRL issues to the table, so you couldn't let that go?🙂
Do you realize that the ONLY player who keeps bringing RL issues into the game over and over again is you?🙂
Pathetic...
@Mihail, Do you believe in what you said? xD
I say, no ; )
@mizz_anavl:
Of course he doesn't... he is a master propagandist, of course he knows it's pure bullsh*t... He just has the urge to constantly tell lies. I mean, it's a psychologic condition quite common among Romanians...
tl dr.
ugyis csak a megszokott hulyesegeit nyomja
@Galantai: "He just has the urge to constantly tell lies. I mean, it's a psychologic condition quite common among Romanians... "
And I think you might just have an urge to get reported for this.
PS: let's see how much RL money you guys spend to defend your dear Budapest. I am laughing already : )
aberezi
A románok támadták és foglalták el Tróját, és ők is védték ez történelmi tény 🙂
Írhatnád magyarul, ha gond van, a nagyi majd segít.
Note Hungary withholds Burgenland from Austria, proof of RL issues.
Insulting article. Reported.
Hm, what abour Greece vs Macedonia and "historical injustices"? Would you kick Greece from EDEN? I think you won't, so don't speak about Hun, Serb or Russian kick from PHX.
@Sir Moke Shag:
Location: Hungary, _Burgenland_ Citizenship: Hungary
Case closed
Miska, what a narrow minded, one sided cr@p you are...
Romungros are still afraid of Hungary because of Trianon, that is pitiful you have to admit it.
Why the fuck are you mentioning ustašas and the 90ties "injustice" to Serbia. If anyone suffered injustice it was Croatia when Serbia invaded us.
@cazacu
Your article accuses 3 countries of committing "RL crimes". That is not allowed according to the erepublik laws. Case closed.
I'm no fan of censorship. My normal reaction would be a more detailed response, pointing out the many flaws in your claims. However that's not allowed here either, and I do not make a habit out of feeding the trolls. So, my response may be left unsaid, however you might imagine those two small words. That.
mivanhé
@Vjekoslav1701:
Because the Serbs in their deluded minds believe they were the victims, not the aggressors.
Of course they are the ones who destroyed Federal Yugoslavia first and their own country next. But it's great to blame everybody else, isn't it?
@Sir Moke Shag:
History has already given the verdict in Hungary's case: the treaty of Trianon in 1920 was upheld by the 1946 Peace Conference of Paris. So the 1000 years occupation of Transylvania is a certified RL crime for which just punishment was handed. Twice.
Same goes with the other "historical injustices" of Serbia and Russia.
But go ahead and enjoy the _in-game_ "liberation" of Burgenland while it lasts.
Well that's true. And I pity the ones that are living in a delusion. Don't get me wrong, I have Serbian friends and I know that we aren't innocent either.